Trading in UNITS

[alireza1354]

I would like to see the ability to trade in UNITS!!!!!

That is so cool !

And I would like to see the hard code on resources lifted!!

And I would like to have the spy unit back!!

And I would like to be able to add cultures!!

Thank u

 

[Civrules]

I *only* like to see unit trading and for the others...

 

[WillJ]

Yes, I think units should be able to be traded. Although I wonder if the AI would be smart enough to handle this.

And what do you mean by the hard code on resources and adding cultures?

 

[marceagleye]

I'll gladly pay you two infantry on Tuesday for one tank today!

 

[joespaniel]

Unit trading would be nice.

 

[Peebo]

yeah, they had unit trading in civ2, right? it could work

 

[MarineCorps]

Would you be able to give that another civ units that they don't have a resource for or don't have the tech yet?

 

[Sims2789]

of course, you wouldn't actually trade the soliders themselves, just their equipment. (history has proven that slave warriors is a very stupid idea)
________
JEEP CHEROKEE SPECIFICATIONS

 

[bippukt]

MarineCorps wrote :

Would you be able to give that another civ units that they don't have a resource for or don't have the tech yet?

Well, I would want the answer to this question to be yes, but with certain conditions. If you buy a unit for which you dont have the tech or resource or both, you are free to use the unit in any way you like. But if that unit gets injured and you still dont have the tech or resources, the only to way to heal it is to pay a certain fixed amount of money to the original seller. In this way, it would be pretty useless to use the unit against the seller itself. And it also gives the seller a steady income source. After all, that is the way things work in the real world. This will of course add new strategies to the game. But the real problem will be to design the AI to use it. If that's possible, this feature could be a real boon to civ fans.

Happy CIVing!!!

 

[joespaniel]

2 ways to deal with it:

If you dont have the tech, you cant trade for those units.

- Or -

If you trade for that unit, it gives you the tech. That's how it worked in Civ2. For example, if you gave a musket to another civ that didnt have gunpowder tech yet, they aquired the tech automaticaly.

I think this is more realistic. Like the Russians copying the B-29 or the US taking German rocket technology after WWII.

 

[Pembroke]

An idea: how about making them mercenaries?

You can "rent" units from a civ for 20 turns. While the deal lasts you can use them however you want, but with the additional twist that when the mercenary unit reaches 1hp in a battle it has had enough and quits, and goes back home (teleports to their capital, or nearest city, or nearest owned square).

After the deal ends all units that haven't already done so are teleported back home. I think, too, that the original civ ought to be the one paying the support costs. Of course, the support cost can simply be carried over to the rent, so this would only matter in cases where units get disbanded due to not having enough gold to pay their upkeep. Would make real world sense, too: the owning civ equips the troops (support cost) and the hiring civ pays a packet price.

A war against their own country would automatically cancel a mercenary deal with the declaring civ getting the blame for a broken trade deal.

This way you could also give military support to a weaker civ without going to war against his enemy:

"I wish to offer you a gift."
=> 30 mechs

...lean back and enjoy the show!

 

[WillJ]

Here's what I'd like to see, which combines some of joespaniel's, bippukt's, and Pembroke's ideas:

You can trade units with other civs. If that civ doesn't have the required tech, all techs needed to make that unit are given to that civ, and the value of the techs is therefore added to the base value of the unit. (You don't necessarily have to sell it for that value, though.) You can also trade units even if the civ doesn't have the required resource(s). If you do so, the troops won't heal unless the buyer gives some money to the giver (representing buying a little bit of the resources). In this case, the unit has a normal value, because a) it can't heal (without extra cost) combined with b) the civ can't build that unit themselves, so you're the only source. ALSO, you can lend units for 20 turns. (Ideally, you could set the number of turns, but I think 20 might somehow be hardcoded into the game.) In this case, it's the same as completely selling them (except that they cost less, of course), with all the tech/resource stuff applied. If a civ uses its bought units against the supplier, they suffer a rep hit. This rep hit makes it impossible for them to buy units again (except with the human, of course.) It also affects other "trust" issues (ROPs, alliances, etc.), but only a little. If a civ uses its borrowed units against the supplier, they don't have to give them back, and they suffer a major rep hit.

I'm not sure if the AI would be able to handle this, though.

 

[Frimlin]

Nice ideas, Pembroke. I'd only like to mention that it'd be good if the mercenary was never able to attack its mother country. Perhaps they should also be prevented from attacking civilizations that their mother country is at peace with -- but maybe that would be too tight a restriction.

 

[Pembroke]

One possible (multiplayer) abuse occurred to me: Civ A rents for free all its units to civ B and vice versa. Presto: they now have a combined army where every unit teleports home when it has dropped to 1hp. Such units would then be healed with barracks and given to the other civ again...

A possible counter: whenever a merc drops to 1hp it surrenders, and the owning civ pays ransom (10g? 20g? A+D+M in gold? proportional to shield cost?) to the capturing civ if it has the money and only then the unit is teleported back home. If the civ can't pay the unit is disbanded. This "ransom-risk" would, of course, be included in the rent, but this would effectively make the "pseudo-renting exploit" not attractive.

I would like to keep the "surrender at 1hp" feature, because it would make mercs less powerful than ordinary units (essentially a -1hp penalty) and it somehow feels "right" in the context of mercs.

 

[Ivan the Kulak]

It would be nice to trade units to other (weaker, more backward) civs for gold. I don't think that a tech advance should be required, or a tech breakthrough possible from this. (It wasn't necessary for Saudi Arabia or Iran to build advanced aircraft in order for us to sell units to them.) One thing that would be nice to see is unit ethnicity, though. This would have to work in conjunction with units costing a pop point. If you rush a unit in a newly conquered city it will have the ethnicity of the civ you're at war with, and would have a chance of turning against you if used in open combat against its mother civ, or civs they were friendly with. This would perhaps necessitate rotating such units back to the homeland for garrison duty and bringing your own people forward to do the fighting - this has real parallels in world history. If you trade a unit for gold, though, it costs the recipient civ a pop point, as they are only buying hardware from you. This would be a fun way to manipulate world affairs from behind the scenes.

 

[gael]

The ability to trade units would diffenitly give the game more depth. You could support and/or get rich from nations in foreign wars.
Help nations that act as a buffer zone between you and a larger civ with out actually going to war.

 

[alireza1354]

U all understand what I mean!

I WANT UNIT-TRADING!

 

[yoshi]

I'd only like to mention that it'd be good if the mercenary was never able to attack its mother country. Perhaps they should also be prevented from attacking civilizations that their mother country is at peace with -- but maybe that would be too tight a restriction.

This is a good point. Technically, mercs attack whoever their employer tells them to, but if it is their home country...it really depends on the merc's level of patriotism. Civ3's rules are so simple that having things like defecting units seems out of the game's range. But for gaming purposes, keeping it simple seems the way to go.

Try the following for the 'mercenary' effect:

Units can be rented to other civs for period of (20) turns, as Pembroke said.
In order to prevents mix-ups, there's a catch: in order for unit "renting" to take place the two civs must already be in an Alliance; if the Alliance is broken, the "rent" deal ends (i.e. the rented units "teleport" back to their capital --under their own colors).

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

A simple way to have both mercenaries AND weapons trade being represented by 'unit trading' is to have unit trade work JUST like any other resource, tech or gold trade!!
eg. you could give a lump-sum gold, tech, or some resource/luxury for a given unit(s)-which would be the equivalent of a weapons sale in the real world. Alternatively, you could give them gold/turn for the unit(s)-which you could see as a mercenary arrangement!
I don't think that you should be able to give a unit to a civ which does not have the required tech-in the same way as resources are limited by tech in trades. I don't think that you should need the resource in order to recieve a unit in trade, though!!!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[aeldrik]

The ethnicity Idea for Units would be really nice, but they maybe shouldn't cost a pop point, even though it would make the game more realistic, but it would just be better to make a limit like for example not more then 2 or 3 Units for pop. point of the CIV, meaning a CIV with 50 pop in its cities could not have more then 150 Units, The actual systems is not taking the manpower needed for a military unit.
About trading Units, it would be great, but 2 things:
1/ How are you supposed to get you bought/rented planes and tanks going without oil.... the CIV should have the ressource...
2/ Something nobody said, and which I thought absolutely unrealistic in CIV2 WHERE do you get the units, you should have to go and pick them up on the sellers Continent, or having him deliver them, but making them appear in one of your cities like in CIV2 was absolutely unrealistic...