Traits, Warlords, and Synergy

[malekithe]

Of course you do have to give up some stuff to be pseudo-creative... you lose access to Slavery and Serfdom and sustain higher maintenance costs. But if quick territory acquisition is key, it's an effective strategy for those non-Creative leaders.

You can also build or capture the Sistine Chapel. It turns your citizens into mini-artists.

 

[NoTimeForGames]

Hey all,

The article says, NAPOLEON(Charismatic Organized), but my manual I have with me says he is Aggressive and Industrious, and I am pretty sure the game said that when I selected him the other day.

Typo? Change in the game? What's up here?

Apologies if this has been addressed, but my sometimes-correct IE Ctrl-F find function says it hasn't.

I am playing Civ IV without any expansions.
Thanks.

 

[PMabey]

Hey all,

The article says, NAPOLEON(Charismatic Organized), but my manual I have with me says he is Aggressive and Industrious, and I am pretty sure the game said that when I selected him the other day.

Typo? Change in the game? What's up here?

Apologies if this has been addressed, but my sometimes-correct IE Ctrl-F find function says it hasn't.

I am playing Civ IV without any expansions.
Thanks.

in vanilla he is agg/ind in warlords he is cha/org

 

[dh_epic]

Glad people are enjoying the article. If there's a hidden benefit to this article, too, it's that it shows that there's a lot of benefits to playing a coordinated strategy -- rather than trying to spread yourself out among a variety of goals. You start to recognize that there are 4 or 5 key areas you can focus on in the game, and that goes beyond even the trait system itself.

 

[DaviddesJ]

The crucial advantage of Combat I is that it unlocks access to other higher level promotions like Cover, Pinch, and Shock (bonus vs Archers, Gunpowder, and Melee). That means with but 2 XP -- less than what a Barracks gives you -- your Melee units gain powerful defence against specific unit types. These promotions may seem narrow in function, but their short term gains can be enough to give you a huge advantage. Moreover, with but 5 XP you have access to even better counters versus Siege and Mounted units. If you don't know how to use these "counter promotions", do yourself a favor and read a combat promotions FAQ. These are SUPER important.

The specific-type promotions aren't important at all, at least in SP. They are mostly useful on defense. (City Raider is usually as good when attacking, and more versatile. Combat promotions are often just about as good as specific-type promotions when attacking, too.) Most good players avoid defending much, except in situations (like on forested hills) where it hardly matters what promotions you have.

I think most players would be better off if the specific-type promotions were deleted, because they tend to be overused by people who don't understand that they aren't that good.

 

[Will_518]

great article!

the two leaders i want to see in the next expansion is:
An aggressive charismatic Roman (C'mon there must be hundreds of Roman leaders that fit this bill)
A Financial Organized Korean (Remember their unique building with +10% research?)

 

[Arithmomaniac]

These are for the War Academy.

 

[MrCynical]

A few assorted nitpicks:

Financial: I think it's worth mentioning that golden ages are slightly more effective for a financial civ than others, since any tile by default giving 1 commerce will be boosted to 2 by the golden age, activating the financial bonus for 3 commerce from the tile.

I'd query the bit about the pyramids and Universal Sufferage. Towns take a long time to grow, and by the time you have any real number of them US should be available or close from conventional research. I see no particular synergy for the Pyramids and Financial.

Philosophical: 50% more great people should not occur unless you've either built the national epic in the wrong place, and/or you don't use pacifism. With pacifism you're looking at 33% more, pushed down further by a properly placed Epic. Yes you get more GP, but it's much more likely to be nearer 30% than 50% with competant play.

Aggressive: 10% combat odds? I think you mean 10% strength, which is very different due to the way combat works in Civ 4.

Imperialistic: Isn't there some issue with the production bonus for settlers only being applied to the hammers, not the food that goes towards building it? Given how much high food tiles are important to settler construction that leaves this trait looking even weaker.

Expansive: You state that an expansive civ with appropriate happiness can support 3 more population than the average civ. This is a common misconception. Unhealthy citizens still work, merely requiring 3 food rather than 2. Since 1 health merely removes the 1 food penalty the 3 health from expansive can never be worth more than 3 food; hence 1.5 additional population, not three.

 

[malekithe]

Financial: I think it's worth mentioning that golden ages are slightly more effective for a financial civ than others, since any tile by default giving 1 commerce will be boosted to 2 by the golden age, activating the financial bonus for 3 commerce from the tile.

Actually, this isn't true. Golden Ages are the only time a financial civ can actually have a tile producing 2 commerce.

EDIT: Just noticed a decent example linked in another thread. http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137283&d=1157214694

Check out the unpastured cow tile in the top left or even the city tile itself. The shot is during a golden age with Qin Shi Huang and without Free Speech (probably running bureacracy instead).

Also, as to why the cow tile is producing any commerce whatsoever; I have no clue.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Sulla's has published a couple of clinics on using the Creative trait, I may have to rethink my opinion of it.

http://civ4info.com/Sullla/civ4_epic8_1.html
http://civ4info.com/Sullla/pahatty_1.html

 

[malekithe]

Sulla's has published a couple of clinics on using the Creative trait, I may have to rethink my opinion of it.

http://civ4info.com/Sullla/civ4_epic8_1.html
http://civ4info.com/Sullla/pahatty_1.html

In the Hatty game, I wonder which was the more important aspect of the creative trait; the extra 2 culture per turn or the discount theaters? No doubt the 2 culture was helpful at the outset, but, after grabbing stonehenge and a few religions, it would seem the discount theaters had a much larger impact. I'm just not sold on the impact that 2 CPT has in any city that already has some other source. As Sulla pointed out, his later founded cities were quickly pumping out large amount of culture, but only a small percent of that was directly due to the extra culture granted by creative.

 

[DeafDolphin]

DH, excellent article. It's given me some insights that I missed, as did the replies on the thread. Thanks for your hard work.

Sulla's has published a couple of clinics on using the Creative trait, I may have to rethink my opinion of it.

http://civ4info.com/Sullla/civ4_epic8_1.html
http://civ4info.com/Sullla/pahatty_1.html

This URL leads to a search engine-type page. I assume something happened between the time these were posted and now.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

This URL leads to a search engine-type page. I assume something happened between the time these were posted and now.

Right, Sulla moved his website.

http://www.garath.net/Sullla/civ4_epic8_1.html
http://www.garath.net/Sullla/pahatty_1.html

 

[DeafDolphin]

Right, Sulla moved his website.

http://www.garath.net/Sullla/civ4_epic8_1.html
http://www.garath.net/Sullla/pahatty_1.html

Thank you very much, Voice I appreciate it.

 

[DaviddesJ]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137283&d=1157214694

Check out the unpastured cow tile in the top left or even the city tile itself. The shot is during a golden age with Qin Shi Huang and without Free Speech (probably running bureacracy instead).

Also, as to why the cow tile is producing any commerce whatsoever; I have no clue.

A cottage, it looks like. Presumably, the player recently replaced a pasture with the cottage.

 

[Nightmare99]

DOUBLE TRAIT SYNERGIES

COLONIAL SETTLERS

VICTORIA (Imperialistic Financial): Build lots of cities quickly, and actually afford the maintainance costs. Gun it for Cottages, and stay close to the water (with Lighthouses near the Ocean).

AUGUSTUS (Creative Organized): Build lots of cities quickly, and actually afford the maintainance costs. Gun it for Cottages, and stay close to the water (with Lighthouses near the Ocean).

CATHERINE (Imperialistic Creative): Build lots of cities in the best locations, even at the higher difficulties. Settle a continent with speed and immunity. Take advantage of the Great Wall to hold off any interlopers, and be careful about your maintainance costs.


OFFENSIVE MILITARISTS

CHURCHILL (Charismatic Protective): With fewer units required for good defence at home, put lots of units on the offense. Use civics like Vassalage and Theocracy. Beeline for a military advantage, and remember that the Redcoat is a beast.

TOKUGAWA (Aggressive Protective): With fewer units required for good defence at home, put lots of units on the offense. Use civics like Vassalage and Theocracy. Keep focused on Melee and Gunpowder units.

CYRUS (Charismatic Imperialistic): Use the great generals generated by your Immortals in the ancient era to feed mega promotions to your Swordsmen in the classical era.

GENGHIS KHAN (Aggressive Imperialistic): Use the great generals generated by your Keshiks in the classical era to feed mega promotions to your Macemen in the medieval era.

JULIUS CAESAR (Imperialistic Organized): Start an early war, with fewer concerns about how you're gonna pay for those maintainance costs. Try to capture the Pyramids, use Police State, and remember that Praetorians are beasts.

NAPOLEON(Charismatic Organized): Use civics like Vassalage and Theocracy to promote your units, while Organized helps pay for the civics costs. The experienced units and fast Musketeers will let you conquer faster, and Organized will help pay for your huge empire. It never hurts to capture the Pyramids and use Police State.

DEFENDERS OF FAITH

SALADIN (Spiritual Protective): Biggest winner from "invincible" Longbows using the Oracle-Feudalism gambit... and pick up some religions along the way.

RAMESSES (Spiritual Industrious): More likely winner for "invincible" Longbows using the Oracle-Feudalism gambit... and pick up some religions along the way.

ASOKA (Spiritual Organized): Best equipped to take advantage of the Pyramids. Can get there early, grab lots of religions, and take advantage of cheap and fast civics swaps.


PERFECTIONIST BUILDERS

WANG KON (Protective Financial): Protective can potentially cut down your army size and thus your unit maintainance costs. Combine this with Financial for an Economic explosion. Gun it for Cottages, and stay close to the water (with Lighthouses near the Ocean).

PETER (Expansive Philosophical): Have the biggest cities with the most specialists. Make sure you grab the Parthenon and the Great Library, and add Hereditary Rule with lots of food.

GANDHI (Spiritual Philosophical): Will have the easiest time getting the Parthenon to support lots of specialists, with some religions along the way to collect lots of gold. Be sure to get the food to back it up, and make your way toward Literature and Philosophy/Pacifism

MEHMED (Organized Expansive): Support huge amounts of population. Get lots of food, Hereditary Rule, and the Pyramids to maximize the benefits of the cheap civics costs. The Hammam supports 2 additional population, without fail.

MANSA MUSA (Spiritual Financial): One of the few spiritual civs that doesn't start with Mysticism. But if you delay your expansion, you CAN found two religions in one city. In combination with the Financial bonus, you can have one hell of a money-generator (once you add the Mint, and Wall Street). Acquire other wonders like the Colossus to make the richest city in the world. And if you can use the Oracle-Civil Service gambit, you can switch to Bureaucracy and stack up huge coin by 1000 BC.

You forgot Isabella?

 

[cronullasharks]

If you can live with no financial help at all then Cyrus has some nice synergy happening......The faster great generals go perfectly with cha. cause each GG actually offers more to a cha. civ (more upgardes per xp)