Trenches

[ULTIMATEGP]

I have a new city improvement idea. How about trenches. They could add 25% for normal gunpowder units city defense and 50% for machine guns. Armored units can ignore these bonuses and bombers can destroy them by boming them but they can be rebuilt.

 

[Gyhth]

They should get a negative offense mod if they attack from a trench though. I mean, firstly you have the challenge of going over the top leaving you defenceless for so long, then you have the problem of getting your bearings straight. I can see that not being a problem at all for the MG, but for the other units that would attack from it, they should get SOME kind of negative mod if they attack.

 

[ULTIMATEGP]

They should get a negative offense mod if they attack from a trench though. I mean, firstly you have the challenge of going over the top leaving you defenceless for so long, then you have the problem of getting your bearings straight. I can see that not being a problem at all for the MG, but for the other units that would attack from it, they should get SOME kind of negative mod if they attack.

The point of the trench is for defense so yes I agree this should be added but it isn't meant to be used that way anyway. Also tanks could ignore this as well becaus erthey can just roll over it.

 

[Gyhth]

The point of the trench is for defense so yes I agree this should be added but it isn't meant to be used that way anyway. Also tanks could ignore this as well becaus erthey can just roll over it.

Yeah, but if I didn't say it someone else was, or they'd just scream unbalanced.

Really, the concept sounds alot like walls, but just for the modern era, but by the time you have this, most of your cities should have a higher cultural bonus than walls/trenches can give, and if memory serves me right, culture or material bonus is used, not both. It is a good idea, but by the time you have the ability to build these, they are more or less obsolete unless you find yourself building settlers and other buildings into the modern era. Not to down the idea, as I said, I think it's a good idea as it just brings walls into the modern era, but by the time you have them, culture is better than any wall.

 

[ULTIMATEGP]

Yeah, but if I didn't say it someone else was, or they'd just scream unbalanced.

Really, the concept sounds alot like walls, but just for the modern era, but by the time you have this, most of your cities should have a higher cultural bonus than walls/trenches can give, and if memory serves me right, culture or material bonus is used, not both. It is a good idea, but by the time you have the ability to build these, they are more or less obsolete unless you find yourself building settlers and other buildings into the modern era. Not to down the idea, as I said, I think it's a good idea as it just brings walls into the modern era, but by the time you have them, culture is better than any wall.

Sometimes i'll play continents maps where I'll find another continent across the ocean and find unsettled land ripe for the taking.

 

[synthboy]

shouldn't trenches be more of a tile improvment. After all WW1 didn't take place in big towns and cities (for the most part).

Probably the best idea

And in that case they already exist - their called modern age forts.

But how about splitting the fort improvement up? The original fort protects against ancient era units, the latter trench improvement offers bonuses versus modern era units.

And being in a trench does protect you from a tank. It gives you shelter while you try and shoot it down with RPG/grenade/petrol bomb. It also lets you shoot at it from underneath when it runs over the trench.

I think it depends on your definition of trenches. If you're talking about WWI era trenches they are long term static defensive positions that were easily circumvented by the blitzkreig style of warfare in WWII. They were replaced by shorter term slit trenches and foxholes that, as you say, offer good defense against tanks.

 

[slothman]

I was oddly enough thinking about this just in the last day.
I would say they should be a tile improvement.
They should increase defense of unit but decrease offence.
It is hard to attack from or to one.
In WWI they basically created a stalemate.
They prevented the enemy from attacking you but if you tried to attack them it was easy to defend it.
They should also be buildable from any military unit, not just workers.
Imagine sending wave of regular people in to dig them.

I just came up with another idea.
The tunnels in the Viet Nam War were similar except covered.
They too were hard to attack from and too.

 

[synthboy]

Why bother? i just really don't see a point, just think of it as slowly evolving over time. If you build a library 1000BC it still works in 2000AD when everything in it would be completely out of date.

The walls and castle city improvements become useless once gunpowder units appear, why not the same with tile improvements?

 

[balthamael]

Just a question- has any actuly built a fort and used it?
i camn safely say i never have.
i like the idea of trenches, and the -atatck is a good idea because thats realistic.

 

[ULTIMATEGP]

Just a question- has any actuly built a fort and used it?
i camn safely say i never have.
i like the idea of trenches, and the -atatck is a good idea because thats realistic.

Their is the this one game where I wa the Incas and the map was inland sea. I had a city across the map that was blocked by other rivals. The land was unbudible so I built forts EVERYWHERE.

 

[Phantom_Lord]

I've got a new idea for this. They should make it so that when you discover some tech, or possibly only when you use certain units, your borders would give a defence bonus the same way as rivers. That would reflect WW1 as the trench warfare was concentrated to close to the German-French border.

I also think the Great Wall wonder should provide some bonus like this in the ancient era. That would be even more appropriate.

 

[sligo]

Units that "fortify" get a progressively higher defensive bonus as it is. I would consider this the "trenches" you guys are talking about.

Now what I'd like to see is the ability to build a fort on an improved tile without destroying the improvement that is there. I.e. I'd like to better protect my resources!

- Sligo

 

[Phantom_Lord]

/\
no it wasn't. It was several hundred miles towards france. Their were even times when German guns could just about reach Paris. None of the fighting during WW2 took place in German soil.

Yeah, whatever, but then you should be able to build trenches with workers, just like roads, but they work like rivers.

 

[kristopherb]

I have a new city improvement idea. How about trenches. They could add 25% for normal gunpowder units city defense and 50% for machine guns. Armored units can ignore these bonuses and bombers can destroy them by boming them but they can be rebuilt.

no im thinking a promotoin 25% extra when fully defended

 

[kristopherb]

Just a question- has any actuly built a fort and used it?
i camn safely say i never have.
i like the idea of trenches, and the -atatck is a good idea because thats realistic.

corey (that is your real name) yes when biulding an army and leaving archer

 

[chef pablo]

leave it as is there already is a bonus for fortification and thats what this represents.

 

[Spartan117]

only problem would be ai doesnt know how to use forts anyway so adding a trench improvement will have same effect, ai not understanding it

 

[zapple]

Isn't the concept of trenches already captured by the existing system of fortifying a unit ... that it gains an extra defensive bonus every turn it is in place longer (the pile of rocks for cover that evolves to sandbags that evolves to a full fire-base that evolves to permanent great earthworks? Maybe one step more to get to the 25% bonus)?

 

[Commander Bello]

Sorry, but at the current moment when walls and castles are a major misconception I do not see any use in adding another such element to the game.

it is like trying to heal the air combat by just adding another unit - will not work either.

Therefore, this whole thread very much remembers me of a wish list for x-mas... "but I want, I want, I want!"

 

[marioflag]

Walls are not a misconception in the game the problem of castles is that they come too late so they are nearly useless; what really make me angry is how silly firaxis has implemented fortresses in the game they are totally useless.25% in defense worst than forests which give +50%, it's really silly and i don't understand why firaxis hasn't fixed it after 3 patches