TSG 246 Opening Actions

[vadalaz]

This thread is used to discuss the game's opening decisions and strategies through the first 100 or so turns. Here you can post questions related to the game and share your achievements/anger/frustration/victories while you play.

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- What did you think about before starting the game, what was your approach to this game?
- Where did you settle and what did you build first?
- What tech path did you follow and why?
- What Social Policies did you choose?
- What world wonders did you try to get and did you get them?
- Did you get a religion? What religious beliefs did you pick?

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

Strange, this page did not show up on the main GotM page for me.

Anyway, it's turn 100, and as you can see from the screenshot, things irrelevant to the victory condition are in full swing. I used to think that science and domination were my 'best victory conditions', but this game reinforces that perhaps it is only science. My natural inclination to build things gets in the way of killing my neighbours, especially early on, and here I think I definitely missed a window of opportunity. The excuse I told myself at the start of the game was that, since this is a continents map, I would need education, and therefore I should focus on regular sim.

However, especially early game flatland-Istanbul was probably easily takeable (probably chariots), but now both my neighbours are honor and spamming units. If the Ottomans get anywhere near Janissaries when I finally get to crossbows, it's going to be a tough slog just clearing out the home island. On top of that, my three-city sim is not exactly spectacular, so it could be a while before I get around to embarking an army.

The very early game I did war both Ottomans and Songhai, and got a couple of workers and caravans, and traded my wine in a peace deal. Two more workers from Lhasa meant that I had no shortage of them (and now I have too many). Since I was not doing early war, I just went tradition as I normally do, and I was lucky to meet Kathmandu first (after meeting La Venta second) for a free pantheon. I rarely pick 'wine and incense', and did consider God King, but I did pick it here because a religion might be useful in the long run.

 

[raider980]

T103 and its a mixed bag. Before starting I had planned on trying Honor Commerce Autocracy and hopefully get an early capital or two. I've captured Istanbul and was heading toward Gao when I ran into a Songhai Pikeman, and I'm nowhere near Civil Service. I thought it might be from an upgrade but I looked at the diplo screen and he is in Medieval. Strangely, we both have 5 techs that the other doesn't have so we must have taken opposite tech paths. I went to CB, he must have gone straight to Civil Service. I'm behind in science (no surprise there) and my cities are small (also no surprise for me, I can never figure out how others get their cities so big so fast; I'm even running a food caravan).

I debated about where to settle the capital. But ended up on the Gems because it kept the Wheat next door. But later I realized that settling on the Wine would have been a 4-unique-lux capital! But I still think the Gems is better because its closer to the two wheat. I got fooled into moving to a 4-lux capital a while back and it was the doom of my game. First expo went up by GBR and that will be an amazing city I think. On turn 50 something Askia had disagreements with Suleiman and asked to go to war; I said yes and therefore only went with a 2-city NC.

For Social Policies I opened Tradition then went full Honor. But wow, I see so many spots I want to settle cities that I'm kind of wishing I went Liberty. And unless I attack Askia and his Pikemen, my Honor is going to go to waste for a while because we're on a smallish continent with just Askia and Suleiman. I don't think there's any way I'll clear the continent; I'm not sure when we usually meet the other continent - I think it may be fairly soon on Immortal.

No wonders so far but I'm going to try and build Oracle and maybe Hagia Sophia. Petra went on turn 88 to someone in a far away land, which seems kind of early, so we may have a wonder spammer in the game like Egypt.

Got a religion; Pantheon of Wine and Incense, Tithe, Monastaries. And Suleiman had gotten a religion too, a pretty darn good one - with Desert Folklore and Pagodas. So now I have two Holy Cities and have a choice of which to use; not sure I've ever had that happen with such good options in both religions!

Edit. Forgot to mention, I'm really considering taking Lhasa; its got 4 pastures! I'm not sure how the diplo penalty works with CS though. If I take it before meeting the other continent, will they know of my treachery?

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

But later I realized that settling on the Wine would have been a 4-unique-lux capital! But I still think the Gems is better because its closer to the two wheat. I got fooled into moving to a 4-lux capital a while back and it was the doom of my game.

I did briefly consider settling onto the wine, but I decided against it because it would be a very slow start. No extra hammer from the capital, and you only have 2 food, zero hammer tiles to work. So I moved onto the gems instead.

 

[Rhodro]

I started with liberty hoping to rush some neighbors. Turns out it was a good choice with flatland istanbul.
I settled 3 cities besides my capital and started pumping out 6 archers. Gold was good this game so I was able to upgrade all of them to composite around turn 55. GBR definitely helped with getting science fast enough.
My scouts saw Askia marching over long stretch of land to me, so I bribed him to attack Ottomans. This war they kept going for a long time.
I rushed istanbul. Earlier I already captured one of his settlers with my scouts or warrior (don't remember which), and also 2 workers, so he was weak.
I also captured workers from kathmandu, but while I was camping him with my scout, Askia declared war on kathmandu and captured it.
After I got Istanbul I wiped and razed his last remaining city.
Askia had most of his units around Istanbul, (but he didn't do anything to help capture it) so I declared war on him and wiped his army by blocking it around kathmandu. I liberated kathmandu and marched to Gao.
Around turn 100 I captured Gao. I left one other city of his to train my 6 comp bowmen on.
I expanded once more northeast of our capital so that I would have 2 coastal cities. (Because 2 coastal is better then 1 coastal).
I also had a trireme swimming around. I saw a lot of coastal water around budapest so I was hoping it would have a corridor to the other continent, but no.
I got a lot of notifications popped up that they were very focussed on religion on the other continent. Religions were founded, enhanced, reformed left and right, faith wonders were popping. But none of that on my continent. So maybe a bunch of weak religious civs on the other continent, we'll see.

Managed to get national college in all of that too. A GS from liberty finisher. Researching toward astronomy.

- What did you think about before starting the game, what was your approach to this game?
I was planning on liberty rushing, getting some honor for xp and commerce for landsknecht. In the end I did not go for honor because of the few weak neighbours on our continent.

- Where did you settle and what did you build first?
Settled on gems. 2 scouts, monument. Skipped shrine because I found 2 religious civs. Granary, 2 archers, into settler spam. The granary gave me 3 extra hammers while building settlers and I didn't have to buy hill tiles because of that.
I settled my sattelite cities in this order:
- Next to lake at GBR
- Between Kathmandu and Monaco (to setup for attacking istanbul). On the sugar for happiness.
- Mountain truffles to the west.
- Istanbul & Gao
- NE just under the iron (not on iron because it's gonna be low in prod so I really want to make the mine). West of the whales.

- What tech path did you follow and why?
Pottery (got it from a ruin when it was almost finished ), AH, archery, mining, calendar, comp bow tech, iron reveal tech, national college tech. Engineering before Civil service because I want bridges. Workshops, Universities, Astronomy.

- What Social Policies did you choose?
Full liberty. Fast GS for extra science, planted on the non-river wheat. I wanted to go commerce after that but didn't have medieval, so I had to open something. I planned to do honor, but because the home continent is so weak I skipped honor and went 2 policies into patronage (consulates, hoping to meet a lot of CS with astronomy and get some fast friends. CS allies can be nice staging grounds into enemy territory). After I got medieval started pumping commerce for landsknecht which I might use to upgrade into UU.

- What world wonders did you try to get and did you get them?
Pyramids I attempted because It didn't pop up till quite late, so I guessed the other continent didn't pick liberty. Since pyramids is good with repairing tile in 1 turn to pillage heal trick I like it. IIRC I even started it after NC so I got it quite late. After that I also got oracle.

- Did you get a religion? What religious beliefs did you pick?
pantheon from meeting CS -> faith / culture from wine/incense. First prophet tithe + pagoda. 2nd prophet enhance for peace gardens (I really want fast happiness now) and itinerant preachers. I let first city convert naturally had to lock it at pop 3 for a while. Bought 2 pagoda's, 1 missionary after that. Wasn't able to buy many more pagoda's before renaissance so now they are 300 a pop. I didn't pick a 2nd faith building because I don't think faith production will be high this game. Already lucky that the religious CS are helping me buy pagoda's now.

 

[Megalou]

Strangely, I got neither the wine-incense pantheon nor the monasteries. I guess the fog of incense lies thick somewhere else in the world. I only got 4 faith each from meeting Lhasa and Kathmandu and the pantheon limit was narrowly missed more than once until I caught up at 30 faith. This had quite an impact because I decided on One with nature and settled a city not only by the Reef but also near Mount Fuji. Follower belief was the buy pre-industrial military with faith one.

Social policies were Monarchy, which I’m only now starting to explore. The tree was completed very early with the help of all the cultural CSs and followed by patronage. The number of cities was 5, not intending to capture number 6 very soon, Ottomans being fine trading partners. The Fuji adventure may have meant one more city than ideal, but I’m a bit surprised that Black vegetable settled for only 3, even though I concur about the science emphasis.

I pestered Kathmandu (4 workers) and Ottomans for a while, keeping the latter away from all eastern sites. Couldn’t get a town for peace but 9 gpt was probably better. A chill ran through our fledgling civ around turn 50 when half dozen Askian troops were spotted heading east around Kathmandu. Luckiky, I had the large amount of gpt needed to bribe them into attacking Ottomans, for which I thank Monarchy.

Techwise, I think I need both the top and the bottom techs. The bottom ones I got cheap when the AI already had them, while some of the top ones had to be a little more expensive, like Optics, Phil and Civil Service.

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

but I’m a bit surprised that Black vegetable settled for only 3

For domination, especially pre-ideology, I like to keep the number of settled cities a bit smaller so happiness is more easily manageable. Also, typically three-city NC is a little bit quicker to crossbows, although that did not matter as much since I went universities first.

 

[sebtanic]

I settled on the gems, mainly for the extra hill production.

Popped few ruins this game, but good ones. Turn 1 I got a map, but for once it was an interesting one. It hinted at a city state in the sea to the east... a pathway to another continent, perhaps? I wouldn't find out until much later (not going to spoil it in this thread).

For once, a map that intrigued me.

Other ruins: t5 Archery (yay!), t11 pop (also good). Much later, I got a 60 faith ruin on the little island north of Jerusalem, but by then all religions were taken.

Early build order in capital: Scout, Scout, Shrine, Settler, Settler, Archer (bought), Worker

t38 Goddess of Festivals (6th Pantheon in the world)
t69 completed Tradition
t89 NC

Policies: After completing Tradition I opened Honor, and went down the left side for the extra XP. The early GG came in handy too. When I got Military Tradition, I thought long and hard whether to complete Honor or go Commerce. In the end I decided to finish Honor, less gold cost for upgrades and gold for killed units will probably make up for the gold I could have gotten from Commerce. I pretty much never build Landsknechts.

Commerce has a very annoying policy that gives you cheaper Great Merchants (who wants those?!). The best Commerce policy is the last one which gives 2 extra happiness per lux. But I figured by that time I might already be getting happiness from Ideology. I'm tentatively planning to go for Autocracy this game... if it even lasts that long.

I settled 3 cities before going for the NC. Considered building another one on the coast, but decided against it because my happiness wouldn't have supported it. Also have to factor in the rising tech and policy costs.

Poland t100

Initially I planned to turtle all the way to Crossbows, but then something unexpected happened: Askia DOWed Suleiman, took a city he had south of Gao, and then marched on his capital. By that time my units were scattered all over the continent doing barb quests. However when I saw Istanbul's hit points starting to go down, I rushed them all to the site of battle. Luckily I was able to get a Warrior and a CB there in time:

Thanks Askia! (I took the screenshot mid-turn, after firing with my one CB but before moving the warrior in.)

The Warrior alone couldn't have taken the city by himself, because Istanbul healed a little before it was my turn. But one shot from my Comp Bow took the city's HP down to near 0, and my Warrior took the Ottoman capital turn 101.