TSG 272 Opening Actions

[vadalaz]

This thread is used to discuss the game's opening decisions and strategies through the first 100 or so turns. Here you can post questions related to the game and share your achievements/anger/frustration/victories while you play.

Quick links: Announcement thread | After actions

- What did you think about before starting the game, what was your approach to this game?
- What tech path did you follow and why?
- What Social Policies did you choose?
- Did you get a religion? What religious beliefs did you pick?

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

I think I've taken the wrong approach to this one. My plan is to trigger the world congress in the atomic era by killing off a sufficient number of AI. Hence, I only have two cities of my own, and will capture more cities later. However, I fear my mid-game science will be too low to reach atomic in time for the second congress vote. I've actually been playing some Prince lately, and the experience is that captured AI cities can have literally nothing in them, even if you take them around turn 150, so any cities I will take will be slow to turn around. So far I did capture two Russian cities on the way to Mt Kilimanjaro, but I burned them. I will actually replant the Kili city (my capital wants truffles), but then I will get a free monument and aqueduct, and I don't have to build a courthouse.

The problem of my approach is that I started warring far too late, which is not a surprise since it's a mistake I almost almost make: let me first build this water mill, and then I will build some units. Oh, I would also quite like Hanging Gardens in the capital, etc.

My start was Ok, but Prince starts can often be a little slow. I moved to the NW fill to move into Petra land and away from tundra, and went scout-scout-shrine to get desert folklore, then a worker. I hate building workers, but relying on steals is just too slow, especially when there is salt to be improved.

As amazing as the capital is, the expand locations were a bit meh, which also explains why I only settled one more city. Although, as mentioned before I actually have a settler going to Kili, and maybe I will actually settle one more in between, near the mountain north of the capital.

Throughout the game, I've been extremely aggressive with the AI, declaring war and making lucrative peace deals. The advantage of Prince is that they are so in awe of me they are willing to give a city in a peace deal, but the downside is that those cities are rubbish (I only accepted one to raze it), and they are broke so I often can't get much gold from the deal, except in the early game.

 

[lymond]

I built a worker too, and regretted it later as I have more than I need by far. However, I know CS can be slow with workers. I stole one from Hawaii early, but it has been Russia that fed me so many by stealing her workers and settlers. My first steal from her was a double grab with a scout, and I stole at least 3 settlers including one sneaking off to Kili right as my settler was on the way up there. I freed a lot of CS workers just for points, and did not declare on one of them

I think it is going fairly well so far, although I hate to have wasted a policy on Patronage, as I feel I should already be opening Ratio. I will have to bulb Printing Press to ensure I open it in 3 turns. I've got the necessary policy in Commerce for buying, and have already purchased a few Wats.

Desert folklore, ofc, with standard scout-scout-shrine opener and then worker..ugh.

I did 3 city NC and was happy with date...I think around T70-ish

I think I have built every wonder so far but Stonehenge and Parth, both of which I ignored anyway. I will finish Colosus, and Machu will go in Lampano after Guilds, and just completed Itza - mostly for a mission. Most of my wonder builds have netted me CS points as well.

I think I've met all CSs now, which is pretty for me, but I just met like 3 or 4 new ones as I reach the far east of the map. Most are allied or friendly with me - the missions have been good this game.

My next big goal will be really pushing science for the Idealogy and starting to put hammers into Ox after getting all the Wats in place.

Aski just DOF me which now makes 4 DOFs. Highly unusual for me. I've bribed some AIs on each other, including Russia, but no one did a thing not even Ashur. I was hoping for someone to take Moscow, and then I would take it from them to reduce the penalty. I don't know if I really want it anyway but it is just something fun to do..ha

Spoiler Siam :

Although I've not paid all that much attention to it, with all the CSs I have the leader UA seems quite strong.


Now is the point where I usually make mistakes, as I'm not very good with the late game.

 

[zxcvbob]

- What did you think about before starting the game, what was your approach to this game?
- What tech path did you follow and why?
- What Social Policies did you choose?
- Did you get a religion? What religious beliefs did you pick?

• That I need to pace myself with wonder building, and might need to avoid hotels and a few wonders that I really like (like Eiffel Tower) to avoid an accidental cultural victory.
• Pottery, (Mining from an ancient ruin), AH, Archery, Writing, then beelined Currency (Petra) and Ironworking (Colossus). Next important tech was Printing Press, then Banking for Forbidden Palace.
• Tradition and Patronage. Next will be Rationalism
• Yes, I think I got the second religion but it might have been the first. Desert Folklore (I was tempted to take Earth Mother instead. I think either would be good), Tithe, Pagodas, Itinerant Preachers, and the one that gives food from shrines and temples.

Here's a screenshot from turn 105. I got beat to Great Lighthouse by one turn, but it was not a high priority. It was still annoying because I chopped a forest for it. I did get Colossus and Oracle (Oracle is next in my build queue after NC)

 

[raider980]

Lol I thought I was doing well. T97. Settled on the desert hill where everyone else settled. Discovered Mt. Kili and sent a settler there asap. Then got bogged down building wonders so I just decided to go for a 2 City NC with Tradition, should have gone Liberty. Oh well, I'll just go into Liberty now, screw Patronage. Kam stole two of my city spots so he's going to have to die. I guess I'll start when I get Pikes in a couple of turns. Then when I get the Liberty settler policy I'll build a few and found some more cities myself. Religion is standard Tithe and Pogadas, I haven't enhanced yet.

Spoiler T96 :

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

Lol I thought I was doing well.

Your cap is a bit behind in population. I also notice you have 500 gold in the bank, but you don't have your fourth salt in your city yet. There is something to be said for focusing on hammers while building a crucial wonder, but except for GL the wonders are not so contested on Prince, so here I would always have all salt and both wheat locked down. That alone should ensure your city should be bigger by this stage. After civil service I will lock down most fresh water farms as well, and even before civil service I will work some.

 

[sebtanic]

but you don't have your fourth salt in your city yet.

Hmm good point about securing the 4th salt as soon as possible. Mine got forward settled by the Inca by turn 100, but I could probably have bought the tile previously had I thought of it.

 

[sebtanic]

Here's my game by turn 100:

I went 3 city, tradition. Planning to kill all but 2 rivals. Polynesia was first, I got a worker and several unescorted settlers from him. Also got lots of workers form barbs, so I didn't have to build a single one.

Inca will be next since they dared forward settle me...

I decided against putting a city by Kilimanjaro. Looked better to have the silver in range, also there's plenty of fish and other goodies there.

Got a few CS allied just by killing barbs and dispersing camps.

Couple notes I took during early game:

Ruins: Map, pop 3 (t11), 100g, Calendar(t18)
t30 Desert Folklore
t60 Tithe, Peace Gardens
t73 ToA
t83 NC
t86 Religious community, Itinerant preachers
t90 Petra
t97 HG

 

[Megalou]

Planning to kill all but 2 rivals.

I’ve heard this before, that two rivals should be kept alive. But why not just one? If two are still alive, doesn’t one of them need to reach the atomic era, or we ourselves reach the information era?

In other words: If there is only one prince AI left when we reach the atomic era, then half the world has reached the atomic era. If there are 2 PrinceAI left, half the world has probablynot entered the atomic era. I fail to see the flaw in this logic.

 

[vadalaz]

I’ve heard this before, that two rivals should be kept alive. But why not just one? If two are still alive, doesn’t one of them need to reach the atomic era, or we ourselves reach the information era?

In other words: If there is only one prince AI left when we reach the atomic era, then half the world has reached the atomic era. If there are 2 PrinceAI left, half the world has probablynot entered the atomic era. I fail to see the flaw in this logic.

No flaw in your logic, but the game rounds down half of 3 civs from 1.5 to 1, so the world enters Atomic era.

 

[Rhodro]

Here is my T100 screenshot.
I went for 3city NC after i got ToA, Hanging Gardens, Petra. Early build order was scout scout worker, and i used gold to buy shrine and another worker. All my other workers were stolen from polynesia, including 1 of his settlers in a barb camp. 1 worker came from a far away barb camp.
Those CS allies have a ton of influence points, the quests were good, clearing barb camps, building some wonders, roads, liberating their workers from barbs.
The capital numbers are quite high: currently at 83 food surplus, which is an insane number that I usually never reach.
I used a lot of gold to buy all the desert hills around the capital, the silver to the west and a granary in lampang. The settler for lampang was made by si satchanalai, to settled immediatly after NC.
Policy wise just standard tradition and opened patronage. It's currently 16 turns till renaissaince and 13 turns till next policy so i'm afraid i'm gonna have another filler.

I see everyone talking about killing off most AIs, so i guess thats what were gonna do after Wat's and guilds.

 

[Bol]

I'm a bit late on this one but I wanted to share anyway.
I liked the land so I went for 5 cities Tradition , although I'm not sure it will pay off as I took a lot of time to set everything up: you can see I'm not at NC nor CS yet.
I'm also struggling to keep allies after getting many very early due to favorable quests (2x discover Assyria, 2x easy barb camp, 3x lucury I'm about to improve).
Huts very horrible: map, barbs, gold, Scarcher.
I also skipped stealing from CS as it feels like their first worker never comes online, and by the time it did I was better off completing easy quests; on the other hand I stole every worker: 1 from Incas, 3 from Polynesia and 3 from barb camps (I also returned a 4th).
I got Artemis and Petra but I'm skipping HG, after NC I'm getting Oracle to get 3 into Patronage before going into Rationalism.
Not much else to say, really.

Congratulations to @Rhodro and @The_Black_Vegetable for the insane starts!