TSG 273 After Actions

[vadalaz]

In this thread you can post the results of your game. Please attach your final savefile, state your victory/loss date (preferably in the post title) and describe your path to glory in this post! Players are encouraged to provide feedback on the game.

Quick links: Announcement thread | Opening actions

- Did you play peacefully or warlike?
- Did you build many Kasbahs, or mostly stuck to farms, mines and trading posts?
- Which ideology did you pick?
- How many cities did you have in the end and where did you settle them?

 

[zxcvbob]

Science victory on turn 326. (I'm sure Black Vegetable, fiddlesticks and a few others will shave 100 turns off of that) I didn't manage my faith well and ended up with almost 26000 that didn't get used for anything. I finished Rationalism late (Nanotechnology), and had plenty of natural great scientists banked. That means I should have finished Rationalism sooner even if there was not a really expensive or key tech to unlock with it, and I should have bulbed all my natural scientists earlier.

I played peaceful until Napoleon declared war on turn 120. I think I was researching Education at the time, or one of the techs leading to it. I just sparred with him (he lost lots of units and I lost very few) with pikes and composite bows until I eventually could upgrade them to crossbows. I did not alter my research path to get Machinery quicker. Then I just tore him up and razed all his cities. Paris had some nice wonders. The last French city I took was Karakorum and I liberated it, but everyone denounced me -- even Genghis. So I thought I was going to have to fight a few more wars but they never materialized. I think everyone was afraid of me.

I built a good number of kasbahs, but mostly I stuck with farms and mines.

Ideology was Freedom. I was building rocket boosters in 5 turns in Marrakech and 8 turns elsewhere so it almost seemed like a waste to use Space Procurement, but I did anyway and bought the Particle Physics piece and one other one.

I had 5 cities at the end. Paris never did quite catch up to the cities I founded myself; I'm not sure why because I was feeding it trade routes.

 

[zxcvbob]

I reloaded my turn 100 save and played it again from there. This time I did not eliminate France (I'm surprised nobody else did either; his last city was Karakorum and he had no military left), and I finished Rationalism quite a bit earlier (Plastics) and I didn't finish Patronage. I timed Hubble to finish one turn after a natural Great Scientist (I don't know if that makes a difference or not) then I bought 3 or4 more with faith, having used up my stockpile getting to Satellites. I got it down to turn 299.

This time the NPCs didn't hate me, but they were getting wary because I was so far ahead. It wasn't an ideology thing because none of them had an ideology yet. They embargoed me at the last world conference; I could have blocked it but I wasn't sending them caravans anyway

 

[enKage]

Finished turn 279 basically mainly because I am a lazy idiot:
1) not assigning manually scientists after buildings completed
2) Wasted 1 more turn, because I send booster to capital and it decided not to follow the railroad, because it would end a turn on a tile with misionary standing :]
3) Separate guild / NE city - libertywise

It was quite fun when the French+ Mongols finally declared (around turn 140 or sth), probably they were thinking my 3 CB, 1 knight and 1 pike can be easily defeted. But 20% strength near friendly cities from religion + unique improv + quick upgrade to XBows and quickly constructed 3 or 4 more units was enough for me. Not to mention I was already Great Walled. AI is stupid

Anyway, I liberated Byblos from Mongols and they gave me a city in a peace deal, which I could raze with pleasure, and few turns later Napoleon gave me Lyon, which I did not want to raze, as it was pop15, and that river everywhere, and that mountain for observatory!!

I fell too much to wonderspamming (17 in cap including national, total 27), but why not, so probably some turn could be saved as well if doing Research instead. Of course I also forgot that sth like Research Agreement exist, and I can subsidize AI to get it constantly.
I also wasted to many faithpoints to missionaries and inquisitors, because Willem decided to visit me with prophets all the time. I was so annoyed that I even went for reformation Unity of Prophets. Because I am fairly peacuful, I punished him only by taking 2 polders by great general.

Congress was very kind not to oppose my proposition to faster generation of scientists :]

Finished with 5 cities, 3 mountainside.


Anyway, If i do sub280, I sense many sub250 wins here, probably sth around t200. With so much faith and Sweden in game, I would not be surprised

Spoiler :

 

[Bol]

Once upon a time, the game was going great and I dreamt of my first subT200 finish...but alas, it wasn't meant to be

The midgame went smoothly: T104 Chichen Itza to solve some of my happiness issues, then T113 I entered Rennaisance through Acoustics to open Ratinalism on the same turn, and I timed it with Oracle as well so I got T113 Secularism (wow).
T114 I rushed Sistine with an early engi coming from the early game wonders, and ultimately I got Free Thought T137.
I got my 4th Uni T117 and Scientific Theory T146 (buying 4 Schools immediately).
I built Pisa T135 (Scientist), Machu T140 in an expansion, and Notre Dame T141 in another expansion (which finally put my happiness troubles to rest once and for all).
I also befriended Sweden T123, and stayed friend with them till the end
Religion-wise, I enhanced after pagodas were done for +prod and Printing Press, and I got 4 extra prophets (...): 3 I planted, one I sent to convert city states for quests.
Over 100 pop T100 is my best and 500+ bpt is my best by far, but the most promising thing was my growth rate, still insanely high.

From here there isn't much to say, I played a standard science game with few highlights: I got Order T160 via Radio, and I timed it with a policy so I got the factory tenet immediately, and 3 rushed factories T163 (Casablance was on 3 coals).
Here comes the worst thing about my game: I only got 3 coals and I never got a 4th, so in the end Fes didn't get to build a factory...very sad
Big Ben T168 was my only wonder for some time, and around this time I won the World Fair...but I literally had to do it myself

I got Plastic T180 with a bulb and immediately bought 4 Labs, filled all specialists slot (I already had 4 StockEx as well) and built research everywhere.
At this point I kinda figured I'd probably miss the T200 mark, and I did, narrowly.

I bulbed 13 scientists from T189: 6 natural, 1 from Porcelain (T192), 1 from Order, 2 from Hubble (T198) and 3 from faith, and I got every tech needed T200 exactly, but I was slow on the production side: I had 5 engis ready to rush parts (2nd natural, 1 from order, 3 from faith) by T199, but I finished Apollo T200, Fes was a mess production-wise (having no Factory) and Casablanca was 10 tiles from the cap instead of 9, plus I had to manually build one part (4 turns in the cap).
In the end I managed a T204 win, which is still my best by ~20 turns tbh, so I won't complain...although T200 was sooooo close.
The main factors the had me fail the milestone were not having a 4th coal, signing 0 RAs (I had the money, so they might have helped if ever so slightly) and having my 2nd best production city not having enough, I guess.

Finally, the ever-more beautiful Marrakech (so close to 50 pop!)

Disgustingly good map, very fun to play.

 

[lerrocco]

I beat you... to 50 pop in Marrakesh hehe

Ok, this has to be a bench mark. My first ever non domination game in civ 5. T304 finish, with literally no idea, I made it up as I went along, though I started playing civ 2 when it first came out (and the board game before that).

That was easy I think. I was always way ahead. The religion bought all my troops and most scientists and engineers. I posted inquisitors in all my cities. I was way too lazy to spread religion but could have done so.

My first scout became a bazooka, first time for everything, and of course a stack of achievement badges in steam, not that I play for those.

I also deviated to explore some game options like antiquity sites, just as I had never done so before.

I did well with culture from CS, and late game I built almost all wonders, not just 'science' ones.

I used the engineer to bulb the last spaceship part. Have an engineer sat on the desert sands outside Marrakesh, so didnt maximize them by any means. Settled 2 scientists and bulbed tech with the rest. I didnt count, but I used a lot of scientists and engineers. Musicians gave me an almost constant Golden age.

Policy wise, 8 in order, first time in rationalism and finished the entire tree.

25 wonders in Marrakesh.

Interesting to see how Tradition works for domination. I could have taken the entire map around the same time I took Paris.

Only threat was maybe Netherlands, so I used a general to steal their good food tiles, knocked them back a fair way, and sat troops on their border all game. He tried to subvert my religion all game, the inquisitors probably won me the game.

 

[lerrocco]

I forgot to claim my "old dog learns new trick" award, so I will do that now.
Interesting to see how the fast game could be played, 100 turns off my effort with a more structured and targetted approach. That took me 3 days, more or less, so I wont be repeating for a faster time..
by way of comparison :

 

[enKage]

I just want to ask, if Order is better for fast science than Freedom. I don't usually go Tradition, and in case of 10+ cities Liberty surprisingly Freedom in my experience is superior when switching to science game

 

[lerrocco]

With my considerable lack of experience in civ 5 I used AI (I am now as clever as grok. ! ) to summarize, during the game, to show me the options.

My take was freedom is better as a pure science route (my opinion) and to reward good play. I have terrible play, and Order gave me happiness hits when I badly needed them.
I figured i needed factories, so why not make science with them, we are building a spaceship.

Order also works better across more cities, so my few cities would have been better suited to freedom

The above is my only ever non-domination game in civ 5, so take that with a huge pinch of salt (if you cant steal a worker), i see the mechanics better now in terms of giving civ 4 a new front end, hehe, its still civ.

My take home was that order is a lot more forgiving for sloppy play, but maybe slower. But I repeat, thats what I just figured out from reading and watching a few videos. I dont have the game experience to back up my ideas.

In domination, folk over-think it. Build wonders when they should be throwing out archers. If you go early ans stay focused its a lot easier than folk might imagine. I guess its the same with a science victory. I probably researched way more techs than i actually needed. just beeline a spaceship sort of approach? Anyway, that was my one off game for a while, I enjoyed it, nice map. Are we going again with this map on a domination run? hehe.

 

[enKage]

Order also works better across more cities, so my few cities would have been better suited to freedom

Here we disagree.
In my opinion Freedom with more cities is better than Order, surpisingly because I heard Freedom was initially designed for Tall and Order for wide. While Order offers immediate happiness boost, Freedom give more happiness in general as well allows growth across empire while and despite working specialist giving flat science boost. Order's best policy of fast Factory with science multiplier is the most efficient with huge cities, and the more cities you have, the less of them would be huge. But I admit, among all Civ games, I am the least experienced in Civ5, I am just rediscovering it nowadays, so I may be in huge mistake.

Basically in case of wide / liberty, I find Order usefull only in tourism game (Freedom is better for science, Autocracy better for domi / diplo, while offering the biggest happiness boost). But as mentioned, I am far from being an expert.

 

[fiddlesticks]

Science victory turn 197

The crazy amount of faith made this as smooth a sub-200 as I can remember. 4 faith bought Great Scientists and 2 Great Engineers. I didn't get enough base science to 1 turn bulb Particle Physics unfortunately. Someone could probably shave 10 turns off my time with detail-oriented play.

Standard tradition, commerce, freedom policy path. Pagodas and mosques.

 

[lerrocco]

The difference at T150 between a good player ( @fiddlesticks ) and a poor one, (me) is evident for all to see.
Science 181 vs 660
Faith 89 vs 188
gold 50 vs 174
pop of 2 main cities 24/24 vs 26/35

 

[enKage]

The difference at T150 between a good player ( @fiddlesticks ) and a poor one, (me) is evident for all to see.
Science 181 vs 660
Faith 89 vs 188
gold 50 vs 174
pop of 2 main cities 24/24 vs 26/35

Supposing you always go for early domination, experience in certain victory condition means a lot, the more science games, the more you would be able to finish near t200.

Mine t280 looks pityful for me as basically never play tradition, even with such a great map and difficulty level, meanwhile I played immortal Indonesia on continents, with low production narrow land, no coal, no iron, and finished t300, but Liberty, in which I am far more experienced. I would really expect far better with this settings of GOTM and tradition being better at science. Only 20 turns difference between two drastically different conditions and challenges.

I think if I repeat this game, but tried liberty instead, I should probably finish pre-250.

 

[fiddlesticks]

The difference at T150 between a good player ( @fiddlesticks ) and a poor one, (me) is evident for all to see.
Science 181 vs 660
Faith 89 vs 188
gold 50 vs 174
pop of 2 main cities 24/24 vs 26/35

Everyone who has fun playing is a good Civ player!

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

Turn 204 victory, same as (Femke?) @Bol . Interesting to see the different approaches to this game, including the different settle locations. I was under the impression that wide play would be faster than tall for a science victory, so I went for 6-city tradition as described in the openings thread (I think Liberty can be made to work here, but I always make a mess of it). There certainly is enough land to settle, but there are not that many unique luxuries, and my game was defined by lack of happiness. For much of the early game, my 6 cities could barely grow, and as a result my mid-game timings were too slow: T131 Printing Press, T162 Scientific Theory (picture before buying any schools, though I did detour for Astronomy and had bought two observatories, and I had three factories up as well), but that's still too slow if you want to shoot for sub-200 science victory (which, it has to be said, I've only achieved a handful of times with much stronger civs).

After schools my game was pretty good. Most AI were actually somewhat friendly towards me despite my early-game war declarations, but I never got a friendship with Sweden. I did consider taking Paris (a very good city), but I never had the time to build an army (perhaps in the late game, but then it's not worth it anymore). In hindsight, it might have been an option to settle four cities and capture France's cities like @fiddlesticks did. In the early game I was already flush with money (at one point 800+ gold in the bank and +20gpt thanks to all the peace deals). I used that money to buy libraries in my two slowest cities, but instead I could have used that gold (and the production for the final two settlers) to get an army.

As an aside, for someone who likes to grow huge cities (often to the detriment of my games), I had a conspicuously tiny capital this time. I think so far I'm also the only one not to build Petra in the capital. In general, I do like to have Petra in an expand, so you have two high-production cities instead of one super-high production one (and Fes did have a couple more Petra tiles).

 

[Megalou]

t245 victory. 4 homegrown cities + 2 Dutch ones from around t100.

 

[Bol]

Turn 204 victory, same as (Femke?) @Bol .

Sadly I'm no elite sprinter, just a random guy from Italy. My last name is Bolis, but most of my friends have been calling me Bol for like 20 years.

Staying on topic, did you go Freedom or Order (and why)?

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

Staying on topic, did you go Freedom or Order (and why)?

I almost always go Freedom because I find it just clicks with my play style. In this game, I thought the gold from the Kasbahs would make it easier to purchase space ship parts, although of course the high faith in this game could also have been used to purchase engineers. Also, I like to get ideology by building or buying three factories, and then you miss out on the 50% cheaper construction cost.

 

[sebtanic]

I won turn 247. Had 3 own cities, and one city from France.

4 faith bought GS. Could almost have gotten a 5th one for 6000. The last natural GS popped when I was already half way through researching the last tech (particle phyics), shortening my win time by 4 turns.

Bought all SS parts with gold except for the first one.

Someone seems to have gifted me a GM of Venice last second, just seeing it now in the screenshot - didn't even notice while playing.

And Dido went on a rampage to destroy all her neighbours... MELLIMAAAH!!!

 

[enKage]

I replayed the game as I sensed the chance to improve my personal best SV of t277 Egypt Immortal Pangea

This time Liberty, 14 cities, one too much, but I did not like empty space, the goal was sub t250, but missed it, too little experience in fast science and proper bulbing, I should have simply not delay Education and Statue of Liberty so much and enter ideology earlier by bulbs (delayed for cheaper faithbuys of schools) and mainly enter Rationalism before Jesuit educasion (but was a little affraid Arabia or someone would reform)

Finished turn 256, Ratio finisher for Sattelites, Oxforded Particle Physics. All spaceship except 1 booster bought by cash (mercantilism + BB). Great majority of unis / schools faithbought, labs cash/faithbought.

Now I also know, that Observatories cannot be baught by faith

Religiion: 1happy/2cities, pagodas, mosques, +20 defensive, jesuits

Spoiler :

t150

finish