TSG 273 After Actions

Staying on topic, did you go Freedom or Order (and why)?
I almost always take Freedom, regardless of VC. Just because the first three policies are so insanely good. Half unhappiness from specialists, and they consume half the food. Plus of course faster great people, but I think all the ideologies have that one.

For science games it basically has to be Freedom, because cash for spaceship parts is so much easier to come by than GEs. In a science game I want GSs, not GEs. I think I got one GE I couldn't avoid this game, but otherwise, a large chunk of the end game was micromanaging my specialists so I wouldn't pop a GM or GE accidentally.


I beat you... to 50 pop in Marrakesh hehe
51 here :)
 
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T283 SV. I played again, with a better idea of game mechanics, though my use of specialists was sub optimal and i think i could have shaved a dozen turns and more.
This time I went Freedom.

I was curious so I settled in the same 3 locations as my previous game, and then into Paris. It wasnt long before I realised it was a poor strategy to start with only 3 cities. I may attempt this again with more cities at start up and better management of specialists.

This game I went pagodas and mosques, I took France after buying unique units and using Terracota army. Dido was on a world conquest in this game.

Take home for me, not sure I saw huge difference between Freedom and Order, I definitely need to build more cities, but I dont know how many are optimal. I had no happiness problems in this game but happiness came in big chunks and I was fluctuating close to zero a couple of times.



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I've played it again several times, trying to figure out how y'all are getting 200ish turn wins. I've gotten it down to about 270 but still don't get it. My best has been settling my first 2 expos faster, forward settling France. (he will also be forward-settling me) Then almost wiping out France after Napoleon declares war; let Genghis or Dido take the last city. Then after annexing Paris, settle another city or two.

The most important wonder (after Petra) is probably Machu Picchu, then I can use *all* my trade routes internally. I'm building Hanging Gardens, but in the expo just north of Paris instead of Marrakesh (Marrakesh doesn't need it) But the war with France was still expensive, and even after that was over I don't know how one keeps happiness above water to keep growth going and to keep the Rationalism science bonus.
 
I have also played a few times. I now realise Tradition is the only way to go, which is a shame as 150 turns into my latest attempt in a 4 city Liberty game I have great library and the pyramids, fantastic roads infrastructure etc for a low population. I struggled with happiness and didnt build an army yet. I planted the scientist from finishing Liberty and even now the science is lower than the city population score in Tradition. Plus the crazy growth food bonuses in Tradition, which again translate to science. Hanging gardens takes on an importance also.

I will make one more attempt, a 4 city Tradition. Four cities plus 2, either ones I build or into France, as the game pans out.

I had a good 4 city Tradition and was feeling rather pleased, when Napoleon came calling and I didnt have any troops. I just quit.

I can see from the posts above from the fast players that an early start is important. Its painfully obvious that population is king, as long as you can keep them happy.

It would be really useful if the fast players who posted above, @The_Black_Vegetable and @fiddlesticks could post some earlier screen shots, turns 25, 50, 75 for example. Just to give an idea of game progress.
 
I have also played a few times. I now realise Tradition is the only way to go, which is a shame as 150 turns into my latest attempt in a 4 city Liberty game I have great library and the pyramids, fantastic roads infrastructure etc for a low population. I struggled with happiness and didnt build an army yet. I planted the scientist from finishing Liberty and even now the science is lower than the city population score in Tradition.

Tradition would always beat Liberty on science, especially midgame, no doubt, but if you want to play 4 cities anyway, I don't know why to go Liberty.
I would say Liberty is faster to 3-4 city national college, due to faster libraries and free settler, but later slows down significantly in terms on science until around plastics.

You really need to plant more cities, to benefit from Liberty, either after 3city NC, or later, but burning GE finisher for NC - pre t.100 aim for at least 7-8, and a few later.
About road infrastructure - if your capital is not pop7, forget about building roads, than connect other cities with a rule - number of tiles with road less than expansion population. Otherwise it is too costly if that 1 more happiness does not repay it.


I went tradition first try only because I have discovered only 3 luxuries, in fact there were more available.
In this specific case however Liberty is a viable choice, as you have enough food everywhere, to minimise impact of no free aqueducts, you swim in faith and have guaranteed religion and you have plenty settling locations and difficulty level is low enough to guarantee Notre Dame. The other reason Liberty can work here is that there are quite some very productive tiles to settle mountainside.
While you cannot rely mostly on population in your expansion, liberty science game puts emphasis on science from flat yields - trade posts, specialists (while generating more great specialists) and multipliers not dependent on population - namely observatories and universities..
 
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I have not the experience to know. All i can do is compare like with like. I have 2 games more or less similar one with Liberty and one with Tradition. In Liberty I dont have the free monuments and aqueducts, which is a big factor, I dont have the growth bonuses for finishing the tree. The worst aspect is that the cities do not expand quickly enough. In Tradition I have no problem with expansion, In Liberty I have to buy tiles. Later I will struggle to fill specialist spots. I dont get to generate engineers from faith. Hanging gardens is huge.
I really dont see a choice for a science victory, in my limited game experience in here.
For sure I would open Liberty and then into Honor on a domination game.

In my latest game I had many workers, they built roads as there was nothing else to do, they are quick and numerous, but I simply dont have the tiles to work. The roads were profitable I built them all after all lands had been developed.

I have no doubt i would go on to win my Liberty game. But not in 200 turns.
 
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I had a good 4 city Tradition and was feeling rather pleased, when Napoleon came calling and I didnt have any troops. I just quit.
If your cities are on hills and he has to attack across a river, you don't need much of an army at all. "Oligarchy" is really strong. A couple of archers, a spearman, and a scout could be enough to hold off waves of swords, spears, composite bows, and a catapult or two. If the city has walls all you might need is one archer, but that's a little risky if he brings 2 catapults in at the same time.
 
If your cities are on hills and he has to attack across a river, you don't need much of an army at all. "Oligarchy" is really strong. A couple of archers, a spearman, and a scout could be enough to hold off waves of swords, spears, composite bows, and a catapult or two. If the city has walls all you might need is one archer, but that's a little risky if he brings 2 catapults in at the same time.
Good to know, thanks for that! I am usually the one attacking, I never did do much defending. For my final attempt at this game I am going to forward settle him along the river frontage. That should ruffle his feathers
 
It would be really useful if the fast players who posted above, @The_Black_Vegetable and @fiddlesticks could post some earlier screen shots, turns 25, 50, 75 for example
Sadly, I don't have my autosaves anymore. If I find the time I might replay the map again myself, and post some screen shots. I can't make any promises however, my free time is a bit stretched at the moment and I've also recently jumped back into another game from years ago: Elite Dangerous.

As an aside, I recently came across a star system that was first discovered by a certain Fiddlesticks. Was that you, @fiddlesticks ?
 
I thought I had managed a quick game at last! France did attack, and as suggested above it was a damp squib, he lost his entire army before he hit my capital, I tool one city for peace, moved in my army and took all of his cities. I razed and re-settled one to gain a better location and free monument and aqueduct. I had 6 cities and was managing happiness, and I couldnt muster any culture! I couldnt do quests for great admirals or building coastal wonders etc. My previous games I was allied with 3 culture CS.. this game I had to wait until I could afford to pay for their alliance. Another 270 turn finish, quite frustrating in the search for a quick victory. Definitely lost the advantage I had through the lack of culture.
I have re-read all the comments in this and the opening actions thread, I have never tried the world fair before. I think I may try one last time, make sure I get the CS alliances I need, maybe settle away from france so as not to be distracted.. and focus on science..try the world fair.
I thought the struggle was just one more turn, and not just one more game.

I had become a little jaded with civ, and used it for war gaming (only playing for domination victories), I hadnt bothered to learn the game mechanics in civ 5 before, but I enjoyed this game. It was good to see how faith works as well. Well, winter is coming, maybe I will be spending more time in here than I realised.:crazyeye:
 
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Won at turn 225. Late game was a bit sloppy. Overshoot the amount of GS greatly because I still had hubble telescope and porcelain tower in my backpocket. PT was prebuilt to 1 turn :crazyeye:
I went order. I bought 3 GE and 3 GS with the faith. Engineered 3 parts, 1 part built by Fes, 2 by capital. It was hard to pick a 2nd city for building SS parts. I settled on Fes, but most cities were low in production and none had iron to speed up SS parts production.
Gold income was so good, and i had all cheaper buying policies, so i was buying all the key buildings lategame like nuclear powerplant, hydro plant, SS factory.

Spoiler :
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France kept invading until they gave up one of their cities for peace(lol), so I raised it so Rabat could get better tiles.

Ending was very messy... I forgot to buy a research lab in rabat for a good 8 turns and had to produce my last spaceship part because I intrusively bought some hospitals for fun because I forgot I was going to buy 5-6 scientists with faith so probably should have been a good 10 turns faster.

Probably should have settled 5 or 6 cities but was unsure if I would have happiness problems and considering the 3 expand cities were growing faster than they could work tiles I'm glad I didn't risk it and I'm more familiar with 4 cities anyway.
I imagine city 5 and 6 were ideally supposed to be placed next to the gems/mountain/coal with the happiness wonder and another down near the sugar/Uluru.
I think the other cities are decently placed... Casablanca might have a better tile but not sure where and Fes would have maybe been better next to the mountain.
I went classic tradition/liberty.
I also wasn't sure if kasbahs would have been better than some of the farms, especially since production in the other cities was very hard to come by.

Sid Meier's Civilization V Screenshot 2025.10.04 - 11.09.02.87.png
 
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Just as I was going to steal the worker, Prague initiates a quest.
Steal the worker anyway or finish the quest for 50 influence points? I have two workers
since before, one bought and one built. I have Monarchy+3 social policies, missing
the two bottom ones (the food and happiness ones).
GOTM273 conundrum.png

Spoiler My own thoughts :
This is a situation where the influence points
"feel" more fun for me. I've always had a soft spot for civ5 culture. So, this
is a situation where I have to force myself to use my head and go for the
worker, since my experience tells me worker and growth is more fundamental.
 
Just as I was going to steal the worker, Prague initiates a quest.
Steal the worker anyway or finish the quest for 50 influence points? I have two workers
since before, one bought and one built. I have Monarchy+3 social policies, missing
the two bottom ones (the food and happiness ones).
View attachment 744217

Spoiler My own thoughts :
This is a situation where the influence points
"feel" more fun for me. I've always had a soft spot for civ5 culture. So, this
is a situation where I have to force myself to use my head and go for the
worker, since my experience tells me worker and growth is more fundamental.
I had the same situation. I stole the worker. I later gave that worker to barbarians and recaptured it and this time returned it for the influence. But it is not an easy decision, those culture points are really handy.
 
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