TSG 274 After Actions

[vadalaz]

In this thread you can post the results of your game. Please attach your final savefile, state your victory/loss date (preferably in the post title) and describe your path to glory in this post! Players are encouraged to provide feedback on the game.

Quick links: Announcement thread | Opening actions

- In what order did you conquer the AI capitals? Who was the toughest foe?
- Did you mostly use a land army, a navy, or a combination of the two?
- Which ideology did you pick?
- How many cities did you have in the end and where did you settle them?

 

[zxcvbob]

Domination on turn 270. (that's fast for me) Warsaw took forever to capture because it had Red Fort and presumably an arsenal (89 strength.) I thought I was going to need battleships instead of frigates.

I picked Autocracy, but it didn't really make any difference -- I picked it just a turn or two before I won. I entered the modern era via refrigeration because I was at war with *everyone* (they declared on me) and I thought I would need submarines. But by then, my frigates had pretty much cleared the seas. (I bought a sub anyway) I also wanted to research Biology early to find some oil in case I needed battleships or planes.

I bought one city-state, Ormus, because it had a little bit of iron and a new luxury (furs) So if I lost the iron from Florence, my frigates would be fighting at reduced strength but not *half* strength. I used all the rest of my great merchants for trade missions. I was not able to run many cargo ships because they kept getting plundered and I had better things to do beside patrolling them. In hindsight, instead of buying Ormus I should have captured and puppeted the Roman city of Ravenna because it had lots of iron. At the end, I had 12 cities.

First to fall was Rome on turn 103 I think, then a long period of peace while I consolidated. Next were the Shoshone, then Byzantium and Greece. (who's left?) Indonesia, Iroquois, and last was Poland. Rome was a composite bow rush, all the rest were taken with my navy. I started out with great galleasses and a caravel. Moson Kahni took a while because I thought there was only one tile I could bombard it from it with a 3-ranged ship (there were 2 tiles) and my ships couldn't fire twice yet. So I would rush in with 3 ships and fire, and 1 would have to retreat and heal because the city could sink them in 2 shots. I think they got upgraded to frigates and joined by a privateer halfway through the siege of Moson Kahni.

I bought an ironclad right at the end to deliver the last blow to Warsaw but it arrived just in time to watch a veteran caravel win the game.

 

[fiddlesticks]

Domination victory turn 140

General plan was to start with an archer army (5) and conquer Rome and near neighbours. Once scouting revealed the overseas capitals to the west a second trireme and great galleass navy with some landsknecht reinforcements conquered those.

The three merchants of Venice were used 1st to ally Florence (nice touch as a neighbour) and upgrade archers to comp bows. The 2nd puppeted Monaco for a sea trade route and science help to get to compass. And the third allied Florence again with the gold used to buy great galleasses in Monaco.

The capitals went Rome, Athens, Moson Kahni, Constantinople, Onondaga, Warsaw, Jakarta.

Policies were full liberty (Merchant of Venice), Commerce to landsknechts, Exploration.

 

[Rhodro]

Turn 202 dom victory. My own continent captured with archers & upgrades. The 3 overseas capitals with frigates, and my embarked well promoted archers.
While playing i felt my capital was not faring that great. Happiness was bad because of the puppetted capitals, so venice couldn't grow too well.
I see fiddlesticks started the campaign with archers. I started with comp bows and this later campaign also means the AI have settles more cities that im forced to raze.
I also waited for frigates but galleas with merchant of venice gold was evidently the better play!

Spoiler :

 

[FireFree3]

Turn 211 win.

Didn't play domination for long. Missed out GL by 2 turns. And I didn't fully utilise the trade routes. So, it's quite slow to get first Frigate fight at Turn 149, while having no Great Galleass for upgrade. Needed 50 turns to travel around the world to capture all the capitals with two fleets.

Should be much quicker if I remember to build and buy GGs earlier.

The capitals went Moson Kahni (very sweet spot with 9 wonders), Rome, Onondaga, Warsaw, Jakarta, Athens, Constantinople. (The last two were the last two because they were friends until a very late stage.)

 

[FireFree3]

Replayed and the build is much smoother. T176 finish.

 

[sebtanic]

Won turn 161.

Once I had Compass, my capital built mainly Great Galleases. I upgraded my main CB force to Xbows, but they lagged behind the ships and never really made it to the front lines in time for decisive action.

I did capture a couple of expos with the Xbows and my 1 catapult, but those expos didn't make a huge difference. I definitely could have conquered the capitals solely with ships. (Of course I didn't know that for sure beforehand. Had any of the opponents put up some fierce resistance -- like Shaka in the recent Deity Domination game for example -- the land units might have come in handy.)

The only wonder I ever went for was Notre Dame, which completed in the last turn so it didn't make much of a difference either. At least it kept my happiness from going into the red at the end of the game.

t45 Rome
t98 Athens
t114 Moson Kahni (Pyramids)
t124 Constantinople (GLH)
t145 Onondaga (with ships)
t151 Warsaw (with ships, but land units helped to take out a nearby Polish expo)
t161 Jakarta (with ships, aided by one logistics promoted Xbow)

I only used 2 of my 10 trade route slots. One was a food caravan to the capital that I kept goint for the entire game, the other a trade ship that brought in some gold and science.

This was a great map! With GLH and the exploration opener, my great galleases were decently fast with 5 movement. Triremes had 6, making it fun to explore the archipelagos.

 

[Rhodro]

Tried it again, and won at turn 164. Even with all the knowledge about the map, it's not near to the 140 turn win of Fiddlesticks. You must have amazing unit moving/placement.

Spoiler :

 

[sebtanic]

it's not near to the 140 turn win of Fiddlesticks.

He's in a league of his own

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

T198 domination victory. Seeing the other reports so far, I'm happy my finish time isn't as slow as I had feared. In the end, my dithering on the main land was not a huge factor. Instead, I think the deciding factor was how quickly you can get your ships in the water. As usual on water waps, my scouting was poor, so I had not imagined the game could be won using only Great Galleas as @fiddlesticks demonstrated. I wonder, would Great Library be a viable approach here, to get to compass earlier?

After the early game, I resumed warring only around T145. Crossbows into Shoshone (who had Great Wall and a couple of longswords by this time), supported by a few Great Galleas. Then towards Athens with the land army while the ships went west to explore the world. Around T70 I engineered Big Ben, and started buying a few frigates to supplement the early batch of three that were heading west already. Once six frigates were in the water, it did not really matter what the capital or any of the other cities were doing anymore. I built some wonders, some guilds (look at those three writers contributing to my game! ), and bought some city states.

I did wonder whether my expands would contribute to World's Fair, but so far they did not. The remaining capitals went: Onondaga, Warsaw, Jakarta.

 

[lerrocco]

T174 dom vic. This was my second run, so with full map knowledge!

My first run was just a muse, just to see the mechanics of Venice, a civ I would never play (and wont again, probably). I clicked automatic workers and didn’t leave troops or develop captured cities. I built an army and sent it away, when they died, and I was reckless, that would be my one and only attempt.

However, the army didn’t die and met little resistance, I made the land conquest by T110. I built a library on T104, to give an idea. Just for fun I sailed them all back to Venice, upgraded them to crossbows and sent them west. I took the Iroquois and have Poland and Indonesia remaining. My guess is this will work, with some late naval help, somewhere before T200, to give an idea of a 1 army march scenario. I may finish that game.

I played again with more sensible play, but sub optimal, and I made the land conquest only 10 turns later. I used pyramids and 1 turn worker repair, which is frankly broken, I could have managed with half the troops and sent a fleet west much sooner. I postponed the final capture of Constantinople by 4 turns just to upgrade my comp bows.

Also, what’s the point of the Honor Tree? It looks good on paper and I always pick it for domination, but my troops have the same promotions without Honor! I am coming to the idea that Tradition or Liberty is the better option for wargaming too. This game was full Liberty tree, opened exploration and into Commerce. Constantinople had the Great Lighthouse, which was well timed.

In this game I diverted my army after Shoshone to give some troop support to the galleass I built and bought. I bought triremes. Iroquois, Poland and Indonesia were all naval victories.

3 merchants of venice were underused probably, all went to Florence for the gold and alliance.

I had to wait 10 turns for a peace treaty at the end. Had a religion just a few turns before the end so I didn’t bother, I just settled the GP..I could shave 20 turns off maybe, but not get to fiddlesticks 140. And thanks to fiddlesticks for posting screenshots of the earlier turns, it does provide a guide to good play.

 

[fiddlesticks]

I wonder if using the Liberty finisher for a GS or a GE for the NC could speed up Compass enough to be better than the GM gold and forward buying great galleases?

 

[sebtanic]

I wonder if using the Liberty finisher for a GS or a GE for the NC could speed up Compass enough to be better than the GM gold and forward buying great galleases?

I used the Liberty finisher for a GS to speed up compass. In fact I was wondering where you got your 3rd GM from when I read your post. Now I get it. But yeah, I think a GS is probably better since great galleases definitely win this game.

 

[vadalaz]

I wonder if using the Liberty finisher for a GS or a GE for the NC could speed up Compass enough to be better than the GM gold and forward buying great galleases?

With your approach (mostly using land army for the home continent), I think GM is likely the better play.

GS shaves 7-8 turns off Compass timing
GM pays for two (?) Galleasses in a puppet somewhere close to the three overseas AIs

I'd imagine that building two Galleasses in Venice and moving them in position would take longer than 7-8 turns on this map?

In a pure Compass rush (fast GL into NC and Oracle), a GS might be stronger. I also wonder how well a land units-only approach would work here.

 

[lerrocco]

In a pure Compass rush (fast GL into NC and Oracle), a GS might be stronger. I also wonder how well a land units-only approach would work here.

My first game was land units only, its just a long march or sail after Constantinople. I think a finish below T200 is possible, but not by much, I dont think my units would be out-dated, I am still encountering warriors in the late game.
The timing of my game worked, rather than continue east, I went back to Venice and upgraded to crossbows. I didnt finish this game yet, but might have chance to finish it one day.

I also discovered the power of the other AI reaction to my wargaming. In the first game I didnt scout the map, I took all land capitals before I met the other 3 civs, They were all super friendly and I made a stack of excellent trades and had open borders with them all.
In my second game I did scout, and the remote civs had knowledge of my warmongering and were all hostile to me, limiting trades and making open borders impossible.
I did learn a lot in this game.

Not to be confused with game above, the following is a screen shot from my first game, with zero strategy, I built an army and marched it. I am only just researching education. I can buy 4 Galleass in Onodaga, the end is close here. Currently T159. Poland I have open borders with, but my fleet will make short work of it.

 

[lerrocco]

T188 dom win. This was my first attempt, no knowledge of the map. This was zero strategy, I built an army and matched it up the hill and down again. Very little defence put up by any civ. Only finished 10 turns later than my 'real game' (above), which probably says a lot about my micro management.
I was wrong earlier, Honor does give better promotions, I have range and logistics by this point.
The army did most of the work, with some naval support for Poland and Indonesia.

 

[Jovan Kukic]

Turn 194(1340.) domination victory, score 1472.
I mostly conquered using navy.

 

[ForkOfSpite]

Uncompetitive T266 domination, but a win is a win. My only plan was to hope frigates worked, and they did. I started one war with galleasses, but accepted peace deal without taking Rome. First capital was strength 80s (Red Fort) Moson Kahni on turn 216. For the most part, I was making excuses to not DOW despite the domination victory goal - one example would be hoping Pocatello would take Rome for me but he couldn't stand up to the Great Wall. Full honor - Exploration 4 (opener, production, happiness, admirals) - Rationalism 2 (opener, specialists) - Commerce 3 (opener, landsknechts, mercantilism). Think I had two more policies and put those in Commerce. Late religion, but didn't use it (a bit of gold from Tithe).

T216 - Moson Kahni
T233 - Constantinople (controlled by Pocatello)
T243 - Warsaw
T245 - Onodaga
T256 - Jakarta
T264 - Athens
T266 - Rome

Turn 266 Screenshot

Spoiler :

 

[zxcvbob]

I've played the first 100 to 150 turns several times, trying to figure out how y'all are doing it. I can (and should) capture Rome before turn 50, although I let at least one of his settlers escape to found a 3rd city for me. It doesn't matter that it won't have a unique luxury. Delay the shrine and granary and build another warrior and 3 or 4 archers instead. First 2 policies are Tradition opener, Honor opener, and Warrior Code -- WC is a solid policy for Venice since puppet cities are so slow to expand; use excess generals to grab good tiles. Then I build roads and improve luxuries while tech-ing to Construction for composite bows. But Alexander and Pocatello are the other 2 strongest civs in the game at this point, and it's rough terrain to get to either of them, and Pocatello always builds the Great Wall (I can start the war before he gets it) Composite bows take too much damage from city defense. I'm stuck until crossbows or great galleasses. And I have to go through Pocatello to get to Theodora. I'll put a citadel on the east edge of my territory and then declare war on one of them but they quickly learn not to take the bait -- suiciding their units trying to captured the citadel.

I've figured out that crossbows are more important at first than the galleasses, and once I get both I research Astronomy and then use Oxford for Navigation. Upgrade my galleasses to frigates and my trireme to a caravel (the caravel then goes exploring as soon as I get a privateer), and once 2 of my frigates get the Range promotion it all goes pretty fast. But there's over 100 turns where very little happens. Should I be sending composite bows and spears/pikes west and attack Hiawatha while waiting for crossbows on the mainland?

I suspect I need to embrace the idea of "acceptable losses" and build tons of spearmen and pikes (I don't have a reliable source of iron for more than one sword) and charge ahead and let most of them and a few of my archers die. And maybe I need to be using my generals to steal territory.

My best run was when the Shoshone built a city that had both gold and copper between me and Alex, which really cramped Alex so I only had one strong neighbor instead of two. I went to war with the Shoshone first and used that city as a base to attack Moson Kahni and then Athens. But it was still frigates and privateers that conquered everything after that, and it takes a while to get that ball rolling.

 

[lerrocco]

I've played the first 100 to 150 turns several times, trying to figure out how y'all are doing it.

I am playing my fourth game, I conquered the island on T114, same time as a previous run.
Rome before T50, is possible with 3 archers and a spearman / warrior, and either a captured settler from Rome, or one of your workers.
Make a trap for the city defence, dangle a worker, the defender will claim it, kill it with the 3 archers, or better still do enough damage to take it easily with your melee unit. The melee unit should be at less than full hit points. Then the city defence will target it. 3 archers, not taking hits from the city, is enough for Rome.

Then, probably best to upgrade to comp bows. My army was 5 comp bows, a spearman (upgrade from ruin) 3 workers! and a scout. I took Greece next. If you are early, Shoshone are easy. I aborted a game where i prioritized science, and Shoshone built the Gt Wall when I was deep into their land and took my army out with comp bows. In my current game, they had developed mines to the north of the city and I placed comp bows on them with workers, 1 turn repair, pillaging for health recovery. Its possible to pillage twice a turn if needed. This is a bit of cheat, but Constantinople is also a walk in using this strategy. 114 turns for Rome, Athens, Moson Khani and Constantinople. Maybe the odd other city for access.

I bought 2 triremes and 2 scouts to explore once I had optics. Lots of ruins out there which are always handy.

In my current game I did not go for crossbows, but went full naval.

As for early game, I pumped out archers after a monument, then caught up with infrastructure. This game I built great library and Pyramids.

Policy wise, I went full Liberty, the 3 MOV's will upgrade archers to comp bows and then buy Galleass. Then I went exploration and into commerce. The Honor policy is not needed or beneficial in this game if you rush early.

I did pause before Greece to get Comp bows, then went GL, free tech to Philosophy and NC.

Early priority is archery and then construction, then Galleass.

That's how I played it anyway. I might be in for a fast finish time this fourth game, Its turn 118 and I am about to attack Poland with the fleet, 5 Galleass and a trireme. In this game something seems to have happened to Poland and Indonesia, both are way behind where they were in my other 2 games.