TSG54 After Action Report

[WarIsPeace]

Most of us do need quite some improvement.

Welcome to CivFantics and GOTM.

Glad you found us and best of luck in future.

Thanks. I think I've gotten too depp into a habit of founding no more than 3-4 cities. Even 5 seems excessive. That's funny, because I'm a builder and I like going wide. This would have been a great game to do that. By the time I found all of that lovely desert I was "done" with settling. Oh well.

 

[dthompson32]

Ouch.

3 turns from finishing all my boosters and Catherine finished her last module. I didn't think she had the tech to do it.

I was cruising to an easy win and then it all fell apart on turn 200. I went for the liberty opener which worked very well, I had 5 cities with the NC up by turn 80. I had the first pantheon and religion, plus first enhanced religion. Around turn 130 I took the tech lead and was heading for the Porcelain tower, which I used my Long Count GE to pick up. I had a small war with Dido and Isabella in there, took one city from each then accepted their offer for peace, keeping the cities as puppets and buffers.

Then on turn 200, Dido did a sneak attack. She was able to get back her city, since I didn't have anywhere near enough units to defend. She also had allied Belgrade from underneath me, that was bad. My second city was sitting 4 north of Belgrade on the river, and I had nothing to defend it. Belgrade took my city in about 3 turns and I was out of cash to rush buy anything to fight back with. I built cannons everywhere else, and took my city back, but the damage was done. I had lost all of the infrastructure from my second largest city.

I finished up building my new army and headed north to take out Dido once and for all. I finally took her capital on turn 240, but I had lost 40 turns or more to this war.

I tried to pick up the pieces, I still had the tech lead and I was spamming out RAs as fast as I could. Then I hit industrialization, followed closely by biology. No coal or oil, and China had most of the CSs locked up because she was in a runaway cash situation. Still it should have been winnable at that point. I found the little pocket of oil up on the northern peninsula and dropped a city there, picking up 21 oil. But now all my cities were trying to build research infrastructure, I had my cities on production instead of science because I needed buildings. I had nowhere to build bombers.

Finally I made it to Satellites and had to hard build the Hubble, since I never got a second GE. Once it built, I went full science everywhere for 10 turns, then used the 6 GSs I had saved up. This got me up up to a few turns from the last spaceship piece. Apollo finished and I was about to build parts, when China attacked. I made the mistake of pausing to build some units, because AGAIN I hadn't built enough to defend myself.

So when turn 344 rolled around I was punishing China with giant death robots and mobile rocket launchers, the last 3 boosters would all pop in 3 turns, when Catherine finished her spaceship.

Loser.

Mistakes I made:
1) Not fielding enough troops to defend myself (twice!)
2) Wasting time trying to build Leaning Tower and Eiffel Tower, I missed both and lost valuable time
3) Not giving away or razing Dido's cities, they put me in a real happiness bind which hurt my science from the Rationalism opener. I probably should have gone for a happiness wonder early in the game.
4) Poor pantheon choice, Messenger of the Gods would have been better
5) I started down the wrong side of the rationalism tree (oops)
6) Not exploring enough early to find all the CSs and having the map exposed so I would know where oil and coal were
7) Wasting time on Hydro plants
8) Not killing off Budapest when I had a chance the first time
9) Trying to keep too much jungle and crippling my production and growth in several cities
10) Not starting Apollo when I had a chance, lost some turns there
11) Not selling my science buildings after I had the last tech I needed

Sheesh, the more I think on this the more mistakes I come up with.

 

[Unresolved]

I wouldn't recommend killing off Budapest if you're going for a SV. That'll effectively neuter any hopes you have of multiple RA's. And Hydro Plants are very nice if you have the time/money needed to get them. For Emperor, the LToP is very good since it will speed up GS production and give you a free GP. To me, it sounds like much of your problems stemmed from diplomacy issues. Always keep track of who you think is going to be declaring war on you soon. You can get away with tiny armies if you play your diplomacy correctly.

 

[dthompson32]

I wouldn't recommend killing off Budapest if you're going for a SV. That'll effectively neuter any hopes you have of multiple RA's. And Hydro Plants are very nice if you have the time/money needed to get them. For Emperor, the LToP is very good since it will speed up GS production and give you a free GP. To me, it sounds like much of your problems stemmed from diplomacy issues. Always keep track of who you think is going to be declaring war on you soon. You can get away with tiny armies if you play your diplomacy correctly.

I wasn't aware that I would get a diplomatic penalty for taking out a CS that had declared war on me? After the first time they took my city, I could have removed them from the game, giving me a better set of resources for that crippled city. Since they attacked me again later when China DOWed me, it would have been a prudent move.

As for Hydro plants, they were good for my capital, but the other cities didn't have enough river tiles to make them a good investment. Well one other city did, so maybe one there.

 

[dthompson32]

Once I reach Rocketry, I usually find my capital building Apollo -> Hubble (preferably with a GE) -> Spaceship parts for the rest of the game, unless I have to wait for my research. So since I have a long production queue, any pre-building helps speeds things up.

Can someone explain what the "pre-building" mechanic is?

 

[Streams]

I don't know if I got it right, but:

- when queuing build orders, any hammers that occur past the 1st building/unit is finished will go to the next one, together with bonuses.

(in order to queue multiple buildings/units, when choosing change production, there is a small tick box at the bottom, to show queue)

- pre building, would be getting a bunch of buildings/units built to only 99% (so, missing one hammer) before a big project (do take care here, as there is a loss of production for those after 10 turns or something like that). When the project comes, queue all the buildings/units, and then the project at the end.

(there is a limit of 6 or 7 buildings/units in the queue)

- the overflow will be big from each pre built unit (it doesn't give just the hammers-1, but hammers*x), their bonuses (barracks give bonuses to units, tradition to wonders etc), and you can cut a few turns off of a big project.

I don't know if I explained it correctly, because I'm still trying to figure out how it works.

My main problem is actually getting units within 1hammer of completion.

 

[Halcyan2]

My main problem is actually getting units within 1hammer of completion.

I normally can't get it within 1 hammer of completion either. I just try to get as much done as possible.

Typically what I do is check the city every couple of turns and reassign my citizens to increase hammer count without decreasing the number of turns it will take. That's usually close enough for me!

 

[caeru71]

Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 1905AD
Turns played: 325
Base score: 1516
Final score: 2332

Thanks for the game.

 

[dthompson32]

Thanks for the info, I will play around with it. Might be an interesting method of getting units ready to pop out for a war, without having to pay maintenance on them.

Never really thought about the queue, even though I've known it is there for ages.

 

[Unresolved]

I wasn't aware that I would get a diplomatic penalty for taking out a CS that had declared war on me? After the first time they took my city, I could have removed them from the game, giving me a better set of resources for that crippled city. Since they attacked me again later when China DOWed me, it would have been a prudent move.

As for Hydro plants, they were good for my capital, but the other cities didn't have enough river tiles to make them a good investment. Well one other city did, so maybe one there.

If you conquer a city-state, other civs(except your allies) will have a big 'warmongering menace' diplo penalty. So if you want lots of RA's, I probably wouldn't take out a CS.

 

[dthompson32]

If you conquer a city-state, other civs(except your allies) will have a big 'warmongering menace' diplo penalty. So if you want lots of RA's, I probably wouldn't take out a CS.

Ah, good to know, thanks for the info!

 

[feelsgood]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 54
Date submitted: 2013-02-15
Reference number: 28319
Your name: feelsgood
Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 1947AD
Turns played: 367
Base score: 1125
Final score: 1541
Time played: 4:55:00
Submitted save: Pacal_0367 AD-1947_feelsgood.Civ5Save
Renamed file: feelsgood_C505401.Civ5Save

Had a blast playing this game. The map was just SO GOOD. I loved the moutains and the peninsula heading north. I loved defending against English invasions. I could have played a little better and finished quicker but I'm still happy with my game.

 

[Maxym]

Thanks for the info, I will play around with it. Might be an interesting method of getting units ready to pop out for a war, without having to pay maintenance on them.

Never really thought about the queue, even though I've known it is there for ages.

Yes it is a good way, just remember to complete them before getting a tech that will obsolete them. Or leave them two turns from completion and then a turn before you discover obsoleting tech switch production to them and they will change to new unit type and still be close to completion but not as close as original unit. Same hammers.

 

[dthompson32]

So I tried the game again, won it this time, but took until turn 324 with a final score of about 1900.

I couldn't get as many RAs going this time, and I tried opening Tradition which probably wasted some policies.

Really don't understand how people get to Plastics around turn 170 though, it was turn 220 before I was able to get it. Much better on the happiness this time but cash flow was terrible. I only had 5 cities, should I be building more?

---- more ----

I followed Glory7's strategy completely, it is the first time I've been so aggressive with the other civs, and I couldn't believe how they kept giving me money for peace deals when we hadn't even fought a battle. I was a little slower than he was, probably about 5 turns behind where he was on turn 110. But while I was able to get to plastics around turn 170, I was not getting anywhere near the science per turn he was getting. At the peak with research labs I was peaked at 1300 empire wide. I had wiped out Dido, Liz and Isabella, but kept only their capitals and Seville as puppets. I also noted that two of my cities weren't very big. While two were close to 20, the other two were at 8. I grew them late in the game.

Very interesting to find out that if you go through all of the GP selections, then every long count after you get to select anything you want. I took an extra GE, and two GS.

So if I was going to finish all the techs before turn 200, do I need all four cities really big?
Or did I need more puppets?

Managed to launch on turn 274, and the cash and culture was just rolling in in giant chunks. I could have easily won using any victory condition I wanted, my tech lead was easily 25 techs.

 

[Lord Gruin]

Started out well but lost track of what needed. Didn't settle enough cities, didn't concentrate on science until too late. Was doing well until Wu Tien attacked me, and then Dora, Cathy and Izzy joined in. At that time I was into artillery and the other weren't. Was able to stave off Wu, and Dora. Cathy decided to leave on her own and Wu decided to quit too. Took a city from Izzy and she was ready to quit, and eliminated Dora. Was ready to get back to the focus of the game when Wu attacked again. This time she was up to speed on units, and she was pumping out wonders like crazy. I stayed in attack mode too long. When I went into defend mode, she did too and I was able to start concentrating on science again. She had already built 3 of the units and I hadn't finished the AP. At the end, I had the AP and was about 15 turns from winning.

 

[Woodszilla]

This was the first GOTM I have participated in. What a great game! The GOTM competitiveness really pushed me to pay more attention to becoming more efficient. I made quite a few missteps, but I know what I did wrong and will try to cut those weaknesses out of future games.

Science VC: Turn 266

Sometime around turn 100ish, i quit out without saving, so I ended up replaying about 10 turns. That's why I didn't submit. This was really good practice for me anyway.

I had 6 cities- i think 23, 22, 20, 19, 18, 13 pop at the end, 1350-1400 bpt.

Rushed GL(Philo) -> NC into Tradition 4 cities -> 2 points in patronage (probably could have gone straight into rationalism if i beelined Acoustics) -> left side rationalism -> 2 points in order (to delay free 2 techs) -> rationalism finisher

No one declared war on me the whole game, everyone stayed pretty far away. Late in the game, I declared on China late to take this random city they popped up in the jungle near me (nice science spot, but no mountain) they wanted to give me another city for peace, but it was far away from my empire, so I took all their luxes and like 200 gold, 40 gpt instead.

Dido took out England pretty early and then was warring with Spain most of the game. The westside civs were warring a bunch too, but no one messed with me.

Is Emperor always this easy?? Or is it just because we had so much distance from the other civs? It was also really easy to pull wonders, even when it felt late. I guess I'm just used to immortal.

What I did well:
Picked really good city spots - Beautiful Petra spot
Efficient use of GEs (rush Petra and Hubble)
Timed my faith and HS to found and enhance a religion in back to back turns
Kept enough jungle to not hold back my growth or production, but maximize science
Had alliances with almost all CS's at one point or another
Scouted the pretty much the entire landmass by t100
Kept my empire in positive happiness
Ended up having #1 army by building just 4 military units and getting the rest from CS's
I never got beat to any wonder I wanted to build.

Things I screwed up (not in order):
Probably could have GL popped Theo, but got other techs while it was building instead of Philo
Bad use of gold, I used gold that probably should have been used toward science buildings
Held my GS's too long, probably could have saved 5-10 turns, bulbed em all too close to the end
Bad micro of workers
Unfocused teching - I was all over the place
Had excess happiness and should have founded at least 1 more city
Should have done more RA's instead of trading my copper out to break the AI's banks constantly
Should have expanded sooner
Didn't realize I had enough gold for settlers for a few turns after I did
Probably could have gone tradition finisher straight into rationalism if I beelined acoustics
After missing rationalism with my first SP after tradition, I delayed renaissance too long and had to wait 1 more SP for rationalism
Poor tile improvement choices in my plains-heavy city
Got coal later than I should have

All in all, I had a lot of fun and am looking forward to participating in future GOTM's. I'd never really played with "win in the least amount of turns" in mind. Thinking about that, you really notice your inefficiencies. I have a lot of things (see above ) that I need to tighten up.

I want to revisit this one sometime in the future, I think I could cut it down to near 200 turns if I focus more.


I'll post a screenshot of my final layout tomorrow, when I get a chance

 

[leif erikson]

This was the first GOTM I have participated in. What a great game! The GOTM competitiveness really pushed me to pay more attention to becoming more efficient. I made quite a few missteps, but I know what I did wrong and will try to cut those weaknesses out of future games.

Science VC: Turn 266

Sometime around turn 100ish, i quit out without saving, so I ended up replaying about 10 turns. That's why I didn't submit. This was really good practice for me anyway.

Glad you enjoyed it.

for not submitting. 10 turns is a bit much to replay. Appreciate your living within the rules.

 

[Lord Yanaek]

... but i completely messed it myself
I started very well, but i wasn't able to switch to wide efficiently. I play tall most of the time. I decided to try wide to benefit the most from the pyramids. I had a hard time keeping my population happy, and had to keep many cities small. Even with pyramids, they were not very productive for science. Catherine was finally able to catch with me in tech, and was close to complete her own spaceship by the end of the game.

But what i did totally wrong was to forget my objective completely. Actually, all was good until renaissance. I made friend with mostly everyone, avoiding to get into any wars (well, unless Dido stupidly attacked me ). My best friends were Theodora and Isabella. Isabella actually planned to attack me early, but never did (probably because i had much better units than her), and quickly became friendly. By the time we had spies, she was informing me about Cathy's not so friendly plans.
Then, a coalition of Russia, China and the Celts attacked Theodora, and despite my gifts of advanced units, she got wiped off. Soon after that, the same trouble-makers eradicated Spain.
Now, that was too much for me I quickly started producing as many advanced units as i could, and started liberation wars .
By the end of the game, my Giant Death Robots were marching all over the map, capturing cities for me to offer to my friends. I started building my space ship when i realized i couldn't wipe Russia in time to prevent Cathy from winning a science victory. I was quicker than her cause i was still a few techs ahead

No point submitting this i guess

 

[dthompson32]

... my Giant Death Robots were marching all over the map, capturing cities for me to offer to my friends. ...

Possibly the greatest Civ line of all time.

 

[Woodszilla]

So, for efficient use of Great Scientists... How late do I want to settle them? When do I bulb and is there any tricks to maximize what you get out of bulbing?