TSG70 After Action thread

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Game Of The Month' started by leif erikson, Oct 1, 2013.

  1. Arilian

    Arilian King

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    282 'cultural victory' - more like domination.

    I was very slow at the beginning planting 4 city NC +1 city, did not have money to buy unis.
    I played the first 100 round totally peacefully, not even a worker steal. I really missed that two worker I should have steal in the beginning...

    Could not get religion, nor any CV wonder, so I changed plans . Full science for XCOM and Stealth Bombers.
    In the indrustial age, I was attacked by Pacal for some reason. I did not provoke and we were friends, but I was able to hold with crossbows. Then I rushed to bombers (ww2) and killed him.
    Next I used all my Scientis and Oxford and I had stealth and 10 bomber around T210. It took me 70 turn to conquer the world. I captured everything (order +2 happy monument + every happines i could find, even Neuswanstein. Only the Spain live to tell the tale, I liberated their Capital so I don't win domination, and also I had to be careful not to win diplo from t245...

    Winscreen:
    win.jpg

    Game: Civ5 GOTM 70
    Date submitted: 2013-10-07 15:16:40
    Reference number: 29842
    Your name: Arilian
    Game status: Culture Victory
    Game date: 1824AD
    Turns played: 282
    Base score: 5233
    Final score: 9344
    Time played: 9:12:00
    Submitted save: Casimir III_0282 AD-1824.Civ5Save
    Renamed file: Arilian_C507001.Civ5Save

    And my new family member: Montezuma! (monty :))

    Monti.jpg
     
  2. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Congratulations. :pat:

    He is cuter than Montie, and I am sure much better behaved. ;)
     
  3. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Cut your lousy hairs!

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    Nice Arilian! Insta new avatar pic for you! :D
     
  4. dthompson32

    dthompson32 Warlord

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    Ugh, turn 204 on a playthru and I seem to be doing pretty well. I've taken Paca's capital, and I'm about to take out Assyria. I'm number 1 in tech, have about a dozen artillery, and beelining to mobile rocket launchers, since I suspect I'm going to need to break Brazil to capture his wonders and have a chance to win (he is number 2 in tech).

    But just realized I have no clue how to win a Culture game under BNW. My little suitcases don't seem to be having any effect on the other civs. I'm at maybe 4% influence with most folks, despite having all the CSs allied with me, and having finished Aesthetics.
     
  5. dronad

    dronad Chieftain

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    Then Assyria rolled me with about a million units just as I was starting to build up a force to take him out. I quit after losing my two border cities and seeing my inevitable defeat. Oh well, I don't feel too bad since it's Diety. I'll get em next time! :crazyeye:
     
  6. dthompson32

    dthompson32 Warlord

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    Having tried this GOTM a couple times now, I find you need to ignore the Liberty tree part of Tommy's guide to be successful. Going straight into Patronage to get Consulates is pretty much a necessity.

    However, the rest of his guide works pretty well for this map, other than you can just about forget about building any Wonders (I did get Oracle on my current playthru).

    If you look at Glory's post in the after-action thread you can get a feel for how you can start catching up to the AI by turn 150ish. It's a hard map (especially with the AI Civs in the game), but a great learning experience.

    Moderator Action: Moved to the After Action thread to prevent spoilers.

    Appreciate the move, I realized after posting it really should be here.
     
  7. Maxym

    Maxym King

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    I dont think i can pull off a CV. Indonesia and Spain are my only friends left, and Gajah wont renew DoFs anymore as he is order and i went autocracy.

    I am sure i can grab a diplo, the last refuge of the incompentent ;)

    And even that is a bit of a tall order, and if Pedro Dows me at any point I wont have enough CS allies. We'll see how it goes. I am about 6% behind him, and everyone else is closer to me, Spain a bit behind, INdonesia even and Assurbanipal has only his cap on 10 hexes but is at peace now.

    After messing up the beginning as well if not better if I tried to do it on purpose, i figured that I will play on and try to salvage a diplo win. I like come from behind win, maybe even more than a great game, but this is a bit extreme:D I was too far behind to try to get a quick beeline to anything, so i chipped away at Assyria with my 3 XBs, and now some support troops, teching for arty. I managed to turn the tide and take two cities with XBs, but it was slow with his cities in the 50 strenght range. Then when i got arty I took two more and his cap.

    Spoiler :


    I had to hurry and had to take white peace as I was fighting a three front war with Pacal and Ghandi attacking my eastern expo on the isthmus. Thats my entire army save for one Gatling, XB and Cav, off to try to repel the double DoW. I also had a galleas, but most of the heavy lifitng was done by my three CS allies in the north, tying Ghandi down, and I had to rush both walls and castle. then the main army showed up, and i started the push back.

    I wanted to wait to get the military academy or mobilization before buying my first triplane, in the end i had to buy it for full price and without MA as other things needed to be built and i had to get more happy before mobilization. In the end i had to suck it up and buy it as i was afraid they will take down one of my arties, but It didnt even fly once yet, Ghandi kept picking targets out of range and then the front line moved out of range.

    Now both India and Brazil have atomic weapons capability and if i know Ghandi he wont hesitate to nuke me. Maybe i should abandon the dream of CV and just aim for diplo. BUt i never had one on deity and i might still try. Wish me luck...

    Spoiler :


    At least Isabella loves me with all her heart, but i am afraid for her safety. Gajah has been grinding her down and if he crushes her, I wont have any friends left and i need to buy at least two AI's votes. My WC diplomacy has worked out great at least, I got scholars in residence on 2nd try, then Catholicis, as World religion (Izzy fonded it but i adopted it) and now might have a chance for Autocracy as World Ideology :cool:

    Spoiler :
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Grimhand

    Grimhand Chieftain

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    Game: Civ5 GOTM 70
    Date submitted: 2013-10-10 19:58:29
    Reference number: 29855
    Your name: Grimhand
    Game status: Science Loss
    Game date: 1846AD
    Turns played: 294
    Base score: 951
    Final score: 951
    Time played: 15:09:00
    Submitted save: Casimir III_0294 AD-1848.Civ5Save
    Renamed file: Grimhand_C507001.Civ5Save

    This turned out to be a lot more peaceful game than I expected, certainly compared to the Deity level games of old. Still got my behind handed to me, though....:lol: My absolute biggest, dumbest screw-up was not thinking of using the Goddess of Festivals with all the wine around! :mad: Didn't see this until I started reading some of the early action reports. I suspect this could have made a difference ....

    - What did you do with the free policy at era change?

    I came across tommynt's Polish strategy on the forum so decided to try that - a hybrid Tradition/Liberty approach which takes advantage of Liberty's free Settler and Worker while retaining Tradition's benefits. It seems like a good approach; however, I didn't implement it quite right so went a little astray.

    - How many cities did you build? How many did you end up with?

    I built 4, somewhat in keeping with the Polish strategy. Ended up with an additional puppet Brazilian city.

    - How did you use religion or spying to your advantage given BNW? Are these element more of a factor, or less?

    Religion not much of a factor as I never got to establish one. Spying worked out very well. Where both India and Maya were quick to catch my tech spying, it took Isabella ages to finally figure it out - really got a lot of techs from her.

    - What Social Policies and Ideologies did you select and how did they support your goals?

    Took the Liberty/Tradition path to (attempt to) grow four cities quickly. Took Order because other Civs had already taken it and it seemed a reasonable choice based upon its supplements to production and happiness. Happiness was an issue for me the entire game.

    - How did diplomacy go with your neighbors?

    Very peaceably until after t200. I had DoFs with most everybody at some point; even my tech stealing didn't harm relations once I promised never to steal techs again. After t200 things were heating up noticeably - I was also getting bored since it was obvious I wouldn't win - so I let Gandhi talk me into a DoW on Assyria. That didn't go that well since Gandhi almost immediately decided he'd rather beat on Brazil. I didn't lose anything but some units but Assyria never liked me very much after that.

    - Were your UA, UU and UB helpful in achieving your goals?

    The UA, certainly. That enabled the whole Liberty/Tradition approach. The UA and UB not so much - I lagged in the tech race too much to get these out early enough to make a difference.


    - Were any AI runaway's in your game?

    It seemed like everyone but me was building SS parts at the end but Gandhi was the real runaway. He was one civ from a culture victory and 10 votes from a diplomatic victory when he launched his SS.

    Note: I had three crashes during this game which required reload of the most recent save file - t79, t188, t221. After the first one, I changed autosave to every turn. To the best of my knowledge, I replayed these few turns exactly as originally played and no RNG events were included (no ruins, no battles, etc.). Please let me know if this creates a problem.
     
  9. Blicero

    Blicero Warlord

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    Finally managed to finish this. I stopped Brazils tourism assault once I took out Assyria, Maya, and Ghandi. But then he went on a CS buying spree so I had to DoW him before I got nukes. On the same turn as the DoW I sunk a carrier with one a-bomb, and watched the other one switch back and forth between his east and west coast cities. He kept shoving workers and archaeologists deep into my borders. It seemed like he was looking for my units. Eventually I wiped him off the continent.

    In the end he had 73k culture which I had to overcome. I was doing 1200 tpt when I popped my musicians. I hadn't yet finished the Games, and I screwed up the NVC by not reading the text that reads "THIS CITY" in the tooltip.

    My key mistake was doing what I'm usually guilty of doing, which is straddling two strategies for the first half of the game instead of just one. I intended to go for a domination CV, but at the same time was plowing through Aesthetics and a few in Piety.

    CV on diety is hard. Thanks for the GOTM.

    Spoiler :


    Spoiler :

     
  10. dthompson32

    dthompson32 Warlord

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    Finally put together a good game. Used mostly Glory's strategy. I'll probably try it again and keep track of the moves. Very much a learning experience, especially the end game learning how the culture dynamic works in the late game.

    Anyway, turn 301 CV, and it wasn't too tough, just tedious after taking out Pacal, Ghandi, and Brazil between turns 200 and 250. Then it was a lot of turns figuring out how to maximize tourism. I passed up 2 diplomatic wins along the way.

    Biggest mistake was making peace with Ghandi too soon, and realizing I didn't have all his wonders. Overcoming his happiness and culture was a royal pain.
     
  11. tommynt

    tommynt Emperor

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    I ll not end this one, i d proly end with a like turn 250 win or so but I hate the late game conquering ..

    After thinking a bit I think I now know a way for a sub turn 200 win and am pissed I havent played this way
     
  12. DrZ

    DrZ Warlord

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    T289 Diplo Victory

    I tried to play a completely peaceful game, using the Tradition + Liberty approach described by tommynt in this thread.

    Managed to DoF almost at least 4 civs at a time and kept friends all game. Assyria was not such a problem as I was able to convince him to wage war with his other neighbours.
    I was going towards a 310-315 CV but I forgot about the Great Firewall and Brazil managed to build it and could not find a way to stop him. This increased the time I would have won CV by some 30turns (all others where not relevant, as I was at influential or a few turns towards influential to them). Maya was getting quite close to a SV....

    So by turn 289 I decided to use my 38 votes in the World Congress to win by DV and that is that.

    I will not submit as I did load the game twice because I made a mistake and really did wanted to win this one... I guess I'm not good enough to win Deity in "Iron Man Mode" yet.

    What worked well:
    - The tommynt starting strategy is awesome, I had 4 big cities in no time. More details in this thread.

    - Order is awesome for CV, and it was the first time i used it. I usually take Freedom for CV but i wanted to try order this time. You have 2 bonuses for tourism: +34% for civs following order and +34% for civs being less happy. If you max out your happiness, even on deity you get the same +34% that you get from freedom, and on top of that you get another +34% for people following order. I had 4 civs other than me in order so it was awesome.
    The super mine/quarry production and bonus science from factories helps a lot also. So now for me Order comes first when i try to go for CV.

    - paying civs to fight is healthy and almost a must for Deity play

    What could have been better
    - should have waged at least one war to take wonders from Maya or India. Deity AI have so much that its almost a shame not taking it. Full peaceful is not the way it seams
    - should have prioritized Archaeology a lot higher. There were only 7!! archaeology sites left when I started building archaeologists, and I got only 5. So I could not even fill 4 museums. Not even thinking about filling The Louvre.
    - The Great Firewall is not useless as I was under the impression it is. It did saved Brasil from loosing to a CV and forced me to use the diplo votes.
    - I need to grow my cities higher. My biggest city was under 30 pop, and from what i can see from the winning guys they have always a capital higher than 33....

    Thanks to the staff for an awesome game!
     
  13. Arilian

    Arilian King

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    You mean domination and leave one civ? Or another idea? Just wondering....
     
  14. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Fall Patch is out!

    If you patch your game, the submission system will most likely reject it. We have to check the save to ensure the parser works. It could require a couple if days, sorry.

    Please be patient, thanks.
     
  15. pkf

    pkf Warlord

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    Location:
    Vienna
    Game date: 1565AD
    Turns played: 223
    Base score: 3094
    Final score: 7031
    Time played: 19:07:00

    Where to start.. well, I applied the same tactics I have found to be most effective when playing CVs on immortal/deity (actually on immortal its not necessary since you can grab tech lead so early). This seems to be about the same approach glory7 chose. I think it should be superior to a peaceful CV here because the dirt (cap) is nothing special (hill, river, no mountain, no desert, no mining luxes.

    First 100 turns should be outlined in opening actions. Opened 3-city NC and placed a fourth city right after. Wanted to place it on the isthmus to the right, but Pacal took it (bad scouting/guarding) so I had to settle for another mountain city in between the Sinai one and the stone/marble one. Worked out quite well, might actually be better than the coastal spot just because of how strong observatories are. An early DoW (T70) by Assyria was thwarted by the great strategic position of my Sinai city - it was only accessible through two tiles so I held quite easily with nothing against a decently sized army. DoWed Pacal again to steal another worker around that time and delay his oracle. Forgot about it (..) and he built it anyways. Education t105.

    Policies were full tradition (with culture ruin), then Patronage - Consulates - Scholasticism. I had so many early CS allies that I could easily afford going Scholasticism without delaying Ratio, because I wanted to enter Ren with Astronomy anyways. AIs except for Assyria were very friendly early on, so I could gather enough gold for a lot of unis and observatories. SPT soon soared and I was quite indecisive at first, if the path to pursue would be peaceful or world domination (the latter I was already used to on this difficulty). Hence I chose a tech path towards Printing Press skipping Acoustics and if I recall correctly I even founded it. Since my tech lead was already ridiculous (3 observatories and huge cap) I was thinking peaceful CV, but someone built Sistine before I could have grabbed it even with Acoustics teched earlier. After seeing cultural output of India and Maya, my choice was warring.

    Beelined dynamite. Already had some Xbows (thanks to Assyria) and declared on Pacal, mostly to steal two more workers and also to take Uxmal which was my preferred 4th city spot. Unfortunately I had delayed upgrading them due to my indecisiveness before Sistine so I was not able to take it down. Fortunately Assyria declared again and I could put them to some use at least. Meanwhile ignored tourism completely. Great Writers (quite obviously) went to speeding up my policies so I had Free Thought very early.

    I hit Dynamite quite confidently around t150, using one GS and 4-5 RAs. I had slacked on unit production though (whoring culture buildings with the aes -50% production). Immediately switched tech to Science focus. Artys took down Assyria quickly and proceeded to Spain. Got second army to march east but as it turns out, quite late. Should have switched all cities to unit production to kill them off quicklier. They eventually captured Pacals main cities and went for India (which I eventually completely destroyed) and Brazil. Assyria, Spain and India were removed from the game. Pacal had 2-3 cities left but wasn't doing so good on culture (~6k). Unfortunately, India and Brazil had placed colonies all over the map. It was quite tedious taking them out. I sold my useless puppets to Theodora and monitored her cultural output to make sure she wouldn't pose a threat. She eventually built Louvre but I had forgotten about it anyways (no time to open exploration).

    T215 Internet was researched. Meanwhile there was only Brazil and India's last city that posed a cultural threat. Since about 10-20 turns before I had been wondering if I needed NVC. I did not have enough faith for 2GM + GE since I had already used one GE on Eiffel Tower and lacked faith. I was also early on GM production since I had stupidly built musicians guild too early (and just the natural GPP of the guild was enough..). So one popped quite early for a measly 1730 tourism. But my biggest mistake was forgetting to reassign the specialists - so at t210, I realized Warsaw wasn't working musician specialists...´

    I could have gotten Internet some 5 turns faster too, but I have the bad habit of conquering cities in the same turn as bulbing and thus increasing my tech costs..

    The major issue was not conquering fast enough to the east. I had underestimated how long it would take to push through Pacal (ugly terrain) and sometimes there were unnecessary happiness constraints. Eventually Brazil made a paranoia city (I checked the cities tab in peace negotiations and there was one I could not see even though I had explored the landmass thoroughly) that kept my workers/(captured) archaelogists busy scouting the sea. Finally I found it - it was precisely 5 tiles from the shore and only one land tile. So my promoted artys could not hit it and I had no nearby coastal city to capture it. I frantically tried to get GW bombers there but again, since the slow capturing, Brazils major cities were still in resistance so I could not rushbuy there (and GW bombers take ages to get across maps..). Also it meant I wasn't able to use their wonders properly, as well as having rather low tourism output - Assyria and Spain both provided little, India had moved all of it to his dying colonies and Brazil did not manage to recapture his capital for three (!) consecutive turns in a promising position.

    So I had only ~390 tourism with Internet. I got a few GWs and theming boni from India as well as ending resistance in wonder cities a turn later, which boosted it up to 470. I couldn't kill Brazil fast enough, but also hesitated to buy another GM with faith. Instead I waited for the first pop to see (really dont know why I did that) what I could have calculated instead. Hence I could have won about 10 turns earlier - 3 3900 strength GMs (2 faith, 1 natural) would have done the trick. With proper warring and GM abuse (Broadway!) it should be possible to win around t200. Perhaps a hybrid between some warring (to get 2-3 more cities for tech) and otherwise peaceful (wonderheavy) approach could be fastest.

    Pretty incoherent but my play was too :) When warring, my turn times just increase disproportionally. After t120 I played sessions of 10-15 turns which amounted to more than two hours each.

    One note for admins: I had installed the beta for MP, but forgot to remove it, then loaded t170 regular save. Clicked next turn and saw my influence drop with all friendly CS (in the beta pledge to protect only grants you 5 influence so they all dropped neutral). Exited game and removed beta. Loaded t170 save again, replayed the turn as best as I could (just tedious clicking, no major decisions) and continued. Hope this is no problem..
     

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  16. dthompson32

    dthompson32 Warlord

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    I've got to share this with someone, it cracked me up.

    I'm on turn 150 of a playthru of this GOTM, and Assyria has moved this huge army into my territory. I have 2 pikemen, a trebuchet, and 2 xbows. However, I have Antwerp, Monoco, Kyzyl, and Hanoi as allies, and their territories are wall to wall with pikemen and xbows. Spain already told me he was going to backstab me, but I didn't bother building any more units, just to see what would happen.

    On turn 150 he declared on me. On turn 153 the last of his units that I could see died. My allies crushed him.

    How's that sneak attack working out for ya?
     
  17. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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  18. kamikazees

    kamikazees Warlord

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    266
    Reference number: 29881
    Game status: Culture Victory
    Game date: 1806AD
    Turns played: 273
    Base score: 1659
    Final score: 3072

    This was by far the hardest game I ever played. On my left, Assyria, Indonesia and Spain were warmongering away, and on my right, the Mayans, India and Brazil were culturemongering. Byzantium was a non-player most of the game, having been rolled by Indonesia early on.

    I managed to have everyone friendly the first 150 turns, which helped. All heck broke loose around T200. Everyone but India turned on me. I think I had 6 denouncements at once. I paid everyone to DoW everyone else, though, so I never got DoWd.

    I did engage in a very quick, bloody war with Pacal about T220. He was way ahead in culture and had most of the wonders. He had denounced me, and that was the turning point.

    I paid him practically all my resources and GPT to DoW both India and Brazil. Then I denounced him and DoW'd him. That was mean, but it let me take Tikal with artillery. It had the Taj Mahal, which was nice. He took it back, and I took Palenque, which had all the rest of the wonders. I then sued for peace and kept it.

    When it came out of resistence, it was producing over 100:c5culture:. I won the international games (everyone else was still at war), and it was pretty much over from there.

    One thing to note is that I did not actually turn any musicians into great works. I think I only spawned 4 (2 natural and 2 bought with faith), and I burned them all on concert tours. My tourism was about 850 with the games going, and it maxed out at just over 600. I did have to DoW Pacal again to drop the last musician, though.

    Great game.

    EDIT: I started with the beta patch and finished with the normal patch. Not sure if that invalidates my game or what, but thought I'd mention it.
    Spoiler :
     
  19. Maxym

    Maxym King

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    Well played Pkf, I like your city placement. I think it's optimal in fact.

    For end game with far flung colonies I use peace for all cities then DoW ten turns later. In your case it might have been marginally faster, for me, late 200s taking out Pedro with 6 or seven colonies all over the map it will be life saver. I am waiting for Peace to expire, his cities to exit rebellion, and working over Pacal for now. Then it will be a quick sortie to long peninsula north of cap, where both Ghand'is and Pedro's caps and last cities are.

    I have decided to abandon the easy way out, a Diplo Victory I had a chance at on t 239(?) and instead grind it out for Dom CV. I pushed towards Maya and India fighting them both. It worked out well at first as I captured one city and sold it to Gajah who razed it for me while I used it as safe base for my arties to take another city from Pacal. Sold it to Gajah, but could jot protect it from India whom I paid him to fight earlier and few turns later it was down to one pop and I needed it as a base for air force once I can hild it safely. So I puppeted it, lost it three more times, and eventually got squeezed so hard by both of them I gave Pacal peace so I could deal with Ghandi.

    Spoiler :


    after that peace, taking Gandhi's first core city:



    Best decision in that war, with only one front I rolled him with arties then RAs and, hussars and cavs. Meantime I used ratio finish on satellites and hard built hubble. Those two GS helped to get stealth later but mostly denied them to Pedro. As soon as Ghandi was done (he nuked me two times, one Bomb I saw being built in cap as i had it at zero but no melee to cap it, he moved all his nukes to northern peninsula city and nukes Pataliputra twice, when he had the chance to wipe out my entire air force. I moved all land units away from the city, not sure if it helped ) I went after Pedro.

    He was a bit tougher to crack mostly bc he was tech leader and plenty of troops. But instead countering my push he went after Zurich, eventually taking it, but losing his empire. Once I had his offer of everything but cap I took it and sold what I could not digest or raze to Gajah. Then I picked up Cult of personality, got Gajah to fight my enemies and went after Pacal again.


    Proposed IG, and voted it through just as I finished Pacal, started another GA, burned last writer to grab extra policy and annexed something like ten cities, buying courthouses and setting them to production. In meantime had lots of prebuild in core cities and still managed to just beat Gajah barely.

    Spoiler :


    With Internet bulbed with last natural GS and one faith bought, I am pumping 2900+ tourism to him, while killing of Ghandi and Pedro. Keeping Assyrians alive for the 50% bonus. I had kept Confucian prophet alive since the assyrian war when I captured a bunch hoping to be able to use his reformation belief to buy any GP. I lost him somehow and had no Confucian cities, I bought one from Gajah for 6k. I settled one new city next to him to get it converted and then found out any GP does not include GMs :mad::mad::cry::mad::mad::cry:

    Spoiler :


    I guess I should have researched that first. The good thing is I just need twelve more turns of next turn joy to finish this. If it wasn't such come from behind win, I would not bother, but it felt good. 15 beakers per turn, sacked cities and half army lost at t 100 to a proper victory condition in the end. :cool:

    I'll add some screens later. Edit: Added

    Spoiler :


    This is the absolute low point of the game, lost Krakow again, just held onto cap, Assyria sitting with seven cities...

     

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  20. Blicero

    Blicero Warlord

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    An excellent idea, thank you. If I could have eliminated Pedro completely and quickly like this it would have saved me a buncha turns.

    This is why I enjoy the GOTM series because it seems like every game (even the king / emperor ones) I will pick up another tip from someone else to polish my own style. :goodjob:
     

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