TSG85 Opening Action thread

I restarted my game in turn 90 and tried again with Wittenberg allied. OK, no submission - but interesting game.
I conquered Austria (no wonders, but they were weakest and on my way to Maya) and next Palenque. Here I lost about six Musketmans + one trebuchet - but nice GW were mine.
I wanted to focus on science and gold, but Pedro DoW me. All my Army was thousands miles away, so I had to rush some Muskatman, Wall etc. - spend all gold on it. France was the friend and they had 200 per turn - so I was trading a gold. I bulid one citadel too, and in the end Pedro gave it up. But I lost all gold, fifteen turns, all trade routes. Pedro does not want ceasefire anyway, but no chance to attack him.
I suppose this will be game for many hours, but I will try to go on.
 
QUESTIONS

- What did you do differently because of the Deity difficulty?

I would have settled my second city on mount sinai, but because of deity i was too paranoid on getting out there and getting my "lands coveted".
Brazil built a lot of wonders, i would have taken his capital very early but because of deity his capital strength skyrocketed way high and way fast so i gave up on attacking.
Did not accept any friendships so i would not get diplo malus in case friends went to war. Less gold for rushing stuff.
Did not use the special unit, AI city strength went high too fast so they were useless by the time i researched them. (My target was brazil who was building all the wonders, but he also built all the defensive structures and wonders!)

- Did any of the Iroquois civilization bonuses help you? How did you take advantage of them?

Food was sparce. I had 3 different internal trade routes sending food to my capital, saving money on roads by connecting jungles helped. And yes moving freely in jungles early is very convinient, but not something that helps you win unless you'r in a defensive war.That's about it.

- How did the terrain and map settings affect your early decisions?

Lack of food, so I focused on food even more than usual. Focus on fast expand on river spots. Skipped stonehenge since terrain didn't have enough production for that. In fact didn't bother with religion past the first pantheon.

- What were your initial priorities?

Food for capital, growth, grabbing the rare spots that could grow semi-decently, minimizing shared borders.

Religion was not a priority past grabbing the first pantheon for goddess of the hunt (which i did get), i just wanted faith to be able to buy musiciens at the end. The plan is to musician bomb the top cultured civ and military conquer a second one if needed. For this i needed to stay more or less competitive on science, thus the focus on food.

- What tech path did you follow and why?

What was needed for camps, research, and longhouses. I got the oracle without rushing it too much.

- What Social Policies did you choose and why?

Maxed tradition first mostly for the aqueducts and growth. I put 2 points into patronage (later 3 for research) then aesthetics. I plan to max aesthetics then max exploration for the hidden sites, maybe after dropping 2 points into rationalism if i can afford the detour.

- Any early wars, who started them and what was the result?

I sacrificed a lot to stay out of wars (gave up on mt sinai, only got 4 cities, etc) so i didn't get in any wars. I also paid the russians to war brazil a couple of times when brazil was moving troops to my borders.


EARLY GAME

First I have to mention, i am an emperor player, and this is my first deity. Doubtful that i can win but i hope to learn a couple of things from comparing my play to others. I don't feel completely useless however since i did watch a couple of deity games videos (i know to expect brutal military, religion grabbing, wonder grabbing, and so on), lets see if i have been paying attention.

- Warrior saw river on first move, moving settler to create city on top of the deer, next to mountain + sea mainly to have a few river tiles for farms. I consider moving inland to the river, but i prefer to keep a costal city after all to get food boosted with sea trade routes later.
- Monument first followed by two scouts
- For research AH -> trapping for the camps early, then pottery -> writing. Then bronze working to reveal iron before i settle my first city. From there calendar -> philosophy. Even if i don't get a religion i can use the faith to buy GPs later.

Priority for me is to try to get an early pantheon, and get a couple of early workers (prob buy one) to clear the river tiles for farms, boosting my settlers at the same time to reduce impact on my growth. I'll settle coastal cities only assuming the terrain permits it, again for the food to capital, and maybe saving some gold by not having to build roads (harbor), since i will be using routes for food every gold i can save matters. Also because of the map type a navy will probably be necessary, so coastal cities will be better.

Early RNG : Got archery from ruin + my warrior became a spear. Barb stole my worker, my spear had to chase it all the way down to its camps so i had to buy a scout (only thing i could afford) to escort my first settler.

First expanded leftside (around turn 50-60), on the spot between the two river, exactly 7 tiles from pedro. Mt sinai looks tempting, but i prefer the two rivers + coast + stopping pedro from grabbing it and expanding in my direction, i want this corner of the world to be mine. + mt sinai might get me in trouble, it's way out there in what seems to be the center of the world, but i might change my mind after i explore the surroundings more.

Third city south (turn 80), near the marble and river. I mostly placed it to maximise number of river tiles, while getting 2 truffles and one marble. It will be my production city.

At this point thinking about doing only 4 cities. 4th might be near mount sinai if the water i see down there is a sea, if it's a lake not sure it would be worth the risk of overexpanding. Otherwise i will expand north, in that corner near zurich. (bought a tile between my two cities to close that corner with my borders, so brazil can't expand there.)

I got the oracle on turn 85, seen it available so went for it, chopped 3 forests near river, had to do that at some point. That let me finish tradition for the early free aqueducts. :)

I got goddess of the hunt too, but religions were out too soon. I built shrines but it was not enough, taking sinai (or a faith generating pantheon) is a must if you want an early religion on deity it seems.

First writer born turn 118. One religion left, in retrospect i should have put my third city on mt sinai... i was expecting the AI to expand more agressively, but it didn't at first, so i didn't have to lock the land around me this soon. With mt sinai i had a shot at my own religion, i gave up on religion too soon.

At this point the shoshone are ahead on tourism, and brazil is grabbing all the wonders. The obvious plan would be to take brazil and all his artefacts later, so i'll have to focus even more on science to get some advanced units (canons?) to deal with his cities.

Right now : Turn 135 : Capital is at pop13, other cities are 9 and 5, settler is on spot to found 4th city. Tradition finished and patronage + aesthetics opened. I have education, researching guilds, and acoustics will be next (should be able to steal chivalry in a few turns from pedro). I have two CT allies (religious and mercantile for happiness, it lets me sell my luxuries) and two maritime friends.

Screenshot : http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=256671895
 
trying a lib/trad mix and until now things go kind of smothly.

Went 4 city NC - got godnes of hunt and 2 sea trade routes - and even could grab a religion with every choise I wanted available. Went way more early for shrines and temples as in other games.

But all ais are heavy runaways, oracle gone like turn 55 CI like turn 65 and even notre before turn 70 - dont think I can even get ren wonders like that.

Going for Longhouses before universities as I want build universities myself and save cash to buy City states. Wonder if its going to pay of.
 
Turn 110 - Education, starting uni's (9 turns in cap), went worker techs, philo, Edu beeline

3-city NC at turn 90. Settled 4th city shortly after. Settled in place, 1st city to pickup marble, 2nd city to pickup crabs and another ivory. Decided on 2 outside TR's for the science/money. It was pretty dreadful without it. Close to Eng for a cargo ship to cap.

Got Goddess of Hunt, Tithe, and food from shrines/temples (moar food). Did some stuff for Wellington in order to achieve a religion.

The plan is to annihilate/cripple/steal tourism producing stuff from everyone except probably Askia (trying to start at the top of the culture leaders as best I can), who is currently the weakest culturally besides me. With the wonders going so fast and the lack of food in the area, it seemed to me to be the only way to win culturally at this point. Stonehenge went t28, for example. So, I am going to open up Renn through Acoustics in order to go Rati and then beeline Dyn for Arty and then planes and hope for the best. Maybe I can steal enough techs to get into the water. It seems like a longshot, but we're going to give it a shot.

I've paid others (Austria, Nappy) to start a couple of wars against Maya in order to try to slow them down a bit, but the wonders are still going left and right. I stole a worker from Pedro in the beginning, but we were friends 15 turns later or so. Other than that, all is quiet.
 
- What did you do differently because of the Deity difficulty?
Did not go for Great Library. Built Library and Settler instead.

- Did any of the Iroquois civilization bonuses help you? How did you take advantage of them?
Forests were very helpful for cheap city connections.

- How did the terrain and map settings affect your early decisions?
Was able to get the Goddess of the Hunt with early Shrine. Delayed Mining for quite a while. I think until after Philosophy and Optics.

- What were your initial priorities?
Camps.

- What tech path did you follow and why?
Delayed Mining for quite a while. I think until after Philosophy and Optics, for National College and embarking and Lighthouses. I had no desire to chop the forests as it was unnecessary for Camps. I was able to catch up to Construction and Bronze Working quite quickly after.

- What Social Policies did you choose and why?
Tradition to Monarchy, then Liberty, then finished Tradition. I'm really not sure why I did it that way, but it gave me the culture per city and I was much later able to build Pyramids.

- Any early wars, who started them and what was the result?
Not as of T120 but Austria just denounced Brazil a few turns ago. My friendship with Brazil had just expired. I had a feeling their relationship would sour. Brazil spamming wonders and Austria spamming cities (6 self built cities unless they change names when married).
 
I started from tradition 3 cities NC and just now I'm in 110T in pretty good shape (first in food, production,gold and soon golden age). I just finished my first university and soon will get three more + two more food cargo ship to capital, so I'm going to out-tech AI's in beginning renaissance.
I lost Hagia Sophia by few turns but fortunately finally managed founded religion - right now I wonder which believes I should choose :)
I know that probably the fastest CV will be domination type, but I don't like it very much, so probably I will try the most peaceful approach (maybe I'll conquer one cultural runaway :)).
 

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Turn 103, started with pottery to build a shrine and grabbed Goddess of the Hunt, then beenlined long houses. I just got the UB about 10 turns ago and I'm now going back for the top row items I'd missed (sailing/calendar/etc). I have 3 solid cities and a settler about to start a 4th. Austria is spreading like a virus and the Mayans are too, I'm hoping they get into a protracted war. Money is good, happiness is fine, the army is ok, but not strong, 2 trade routes going and about to add a 3rd and 3 civs are paying me for truffles each turn. All civs are peaceful so far, no wars anywhere, but that just means they will gang up on me in 10 turns. I'm not chasing any wonders, but I was able to get the pyramids, so I've got a small army of workers now.

I don't expect to win this one, certainly not on CV, so my goal now is to survive with all of my cities intact.
 
Man, this is hard! Up to T180 now. Already had Industrial leader vote and I am 4 turns from Sci Theory. At least half the Civs in this game have followed the Education, Printing Press, Sci Theory beeline. It's really hard to catch up in Science when the AI is also beelineing Science. Fully promoted spy killed trying to steal Technology. Never got religion.
I don't expect to win this one, certainly not on CV, so my goal now is to survive with all of my cities intact.
Sounds about right for me too. I just trying to stay on the good side of all my neighbors that hate each other. A razor's edge.
 
I can`t see myself winning this one :)

Got three cities up fast (Liberty) and got NC up.

Deity to me means no wonders, so I didn`t go for any. I tried to exploit the fact that forest counts as road for caravans, and got the wheel and engineering and two caravans up and running fast.

Actually, my start is not half bad, but I just lost a culture-deity game where I had a MUCH better start...lol... so I am not overly optimistic.

My strategy will be to focus on culture and crush anyone who produces lots of tourism. Wish me luck.
 
I started from tradition 3 cities NC and just now I'm in 110T in pretty good shape (first in food, production,gold and soon golden age). I just finished my first university and soon will get three more + two more food cargo ship to capital, so I'm going to out-tech AI's in beginning renaissance.
I lost Hagia Sophia by few turns but fortunately finally managed founded religion - right now I wonder which believes I should choose :)
I know that probably the fastest CV will be domination type, but I don't like it very much, so probably I will try the most peaceful approach (maybe I'll conquer one cultural runaway :)).

Care to share your secret how you make 67 gold per turn with only two trade routes, both bringing food to your capital?:eek:

I`ve played this game for 1700 hours now, and still got much to learn it seems:p

(I don`t understand how some people say CIV V lacks depth... Come on!)
 
Care to share your secret how you make 67 gold per turn with only two trade routes, both bringing food to your capital?:eek:

I sold all my iron and horses for 2gpt +monarchy +city connections :)
 
Just lost my first game.

Liberty 4 cities. Guess who planted the 4th with 5 turn left on NC, hmmm?

Had a long war with brasil (already got a city from them on the sugar south) but then Austria decided to backstab with an army of musket.

Followed a 100 turn siege on the past brazilian city. With her city stat ally on the top, then marrying the one on the south, things were very though. At one point I had 5 muskets + 5 canons but with red fort, 60+ strengh cities are no fun.

I ultimatly rage quited when I saw bombers and I was still 10 turns from arties...

Btw, I'm so jealous: NO WAY I could get god of the hunt. Was gone as early as T20!

Things I learnt:

- This doesn't seems possible without a domination style start. For me the biggest issue was austria. With 2 marriages & CS allies, she has a HUGE army and also tech so fast!
- War before arties or plane doesn't seems possible. Those mohawk SHOULD have a free woodman promotion. I don't understand why jaggs got it and not them!
- Teching here seems akward: rushing longhouse seemed very good but delayed civil service and education ultmatly killed me. Btw, I had a hard time trying to rush university specialists. So little food! Not even talking about writters/artist/musicians.
- I can't figure what policies to take after lib or trad, for a domination oriented game. Full honnor or only left side? Full commerce?
 
I thought I was doing bad but this thread gave me a bit of hope xD

I'm at T125 Education, Rush bought uni in capital, 5 cities. Tradition completed. But my cities are somewhat low pop (cap at 16, 13 10 6 and 4). I delayed sailing a bit too much I guess.

Major blunder, I did not see that someone was in Renaissance and I had a spy for I don't know how many turn... sigh. I think I also should have went for Longhouse sooner and hope to steal Education.

I stole 3 workers from Pedro, cute worker farm haha.

Edit: God my biggest problem is I cannot get a good culture... I got Secularism only at T170 :/ Impossible to beat Shoshone in the culture CS
 
I had a hard time trying to rush university specialists. So little food! Not even talking about writters/artist/musicians.
- I can't figure what policies to take after lib or trad, for a domination oriented game. Full honnor or only left side? Full commerce?
For the food, put specialists on university at around population 10. Can't wait much more than that.

For the little food, the internal trade routes boosting the capital is a must i feel. For this reason expanding top or right side on the coast is best. If you expand on the left in the direction of pedro, the coastal trade route can't reach your capital. I made this mistake and had to make a land trade route at first.

For the policies, tradition for the food + growth bonus obviouly, followed by honor if you are doing war early (it was not possible here for me, too much defense on AIs cities) or a couple of points into patronage until you unlock rationalism. A point into commerce to boost capitol income is not bad either, but grabbing rationalism asap is the most important. Domination is all about honor (general + experience + culture + gold from kills) OR rationalism to stay current. On deity whatever you do you always need those 2 points into rationalism asap.
 
but grabbing rationalism asap is the most important. Domination is all about honor (general + experience + culture + gold from kills) OR rationalism to stay current. On deity whatever you do you always need those 2 points into rationalism asap.

Yeah ratio is indeed a no brainer but I usually time my renaissance badly so I must dip 1 or 2 points before the ratio opener.
Well, I've chosen honor, Alea jacta es!
 
T101:
Liberty start (one policy left), 3 cities, just building my third library and then start on NC, but 2 cities are already about to finish longhouses. Got my religion up (+1 food from camps, +1 happieness for 2 cities, +1 food from shrines and temples) thx to early wittenberg-alliance. The barbs made me a hard time in those jungles, killing my scout which was guarding a worker snatched from quebec.
Don't think playing peacefully is an option, since the AI builds all the wonders... guess I might as well rely on that production boost and take what I need. :)
I'm usually not a deity player, so I expect to fail miserably...we'll see.
 
I think I messed up by not moving beside the mtn for the observatory. I was thinking at first I don't usually need it so why start now. After taking a look at all your starts I think I could of used it. I plopped down the capital in place and pretty much did a bad version of 100 turns of what Glory 7 did. I went scout/scout/shrine. Usually I would go with a settler or granary and not worry about shrine but figured Id try for GOTH panth. I actually did get that on turn 31. After shrine I went Settler/Granary/2 Cargo Ships. I think city placement for me was bad this game I put my 2nd city right on the lux south of the horses. Maybe a bit further down was better but I was thinking at least I can get an observatory here if I need to. Also I was having early happy issues and wanted to settle on the lux. I went to war with Zurich as soon as I met them and it didn't pay off since I could never steal a worker from them and never really got to do any missions for them. I did not get to steal any workers at all and that was horrid! So my improvements were late and it hurt. I put Austria and Brazil to war and got France in a duel war with USA and Songhai. Shoshone went to war with France to and I jumped in the party thinking they won't send any troops to me and Ill get all the bribe gold back. That worked out good. I have a save at around turn 73, Ill take a screen shot later. I was sorta close to Glory7 with my pop and gpt and what not but he had 4 cities by turn 100 to my 3 and I didn't grow out the 3rd as fast. Also I didnt get to steal Education. My spy took his sweet time and I did get a few techs moving him around. I used oxford for navigation. Im planning on a shosone attack but his cap is in a tough spot for my Navy. I think take a few cities and sell them and peace out and work on Brazil and Austria next. Pacal seems like he is going to be more of the leader but the 3 of them are wonder spamming all game. I did get PT since nobody dipped into Rati. I allied up with Brazil,Maya,USA,France and Song. I am RA'ing with all of them. My main problem, which nobody on here seems to have, is I am not 1st in production. Maybe I need to change over the food ships to production ships but I seem to be lacking behind.
 
Not sure how it can be possible to steal Education. :eek:

We only got our first spy last turn and it will take another 33 turns before she can steal anything. Fortunately it only took 4 turns to research it ourselves. :)

We are following the usual liberty tree and founded a total of 8 cities. The intention is to maximize the number of archeologists and see what that brings, so we can compare that to other strategies. No wars so far, but the Shoshone have begun to parade troops near our eastern borders. :scan:

Extremely bad luck with We Love The King Day because Onondaga wants Salt which is unavailable until we can afford 28gpt (if ever). :mad:
However, ruins were generous for a change. The AI were kind enough to leave quite a few for our scouts. :)

Of course many wonders went to the AI, but we did get the Pyramids and are nonetheless competing for #1 in the rankings.


Cities (9)
0 Onondaga (2 Truffles, Ivory, Horses, 2 Iron), in place
42 Osininka (Crabs, Ivory, Iron), before Brazil would claim that spot
45 Grand River (Marble, 2 Truffles, Iron), off-river on lake and ocean
62 Akwesasme (2 Truffles, 2 Iron), north tip for another Cargo Ship
66 Buffalo Creek (Spices, Mt. Kailash) :mischief:
68 Brantford (Ivory), the 1-tile island
71 Montreal (2 Whales, Mt. Sinai) :mischief:, sadly Petra went on turn 67
76 Genesse River, network hub south of Quebec City
83 Canandaigua Lake (Pearls, Spices), far ocean opposite of France

Religion
45 Goddess of the Hunt (30 faith from the very last ruins)
83 Tengriism (Tithe, Mosques)

Made one 200f missionary, one mosque and will build 2 more before enhancing. The Maya are spamming their useless beliefs (tundra etc.) with a thousand missionaries...

Policies
5 Tradition
12 Liberty
21 Citizenship
32 Republic
57 Collective Rule
80 Meritocracy
100 Representation

Golden Ages
93-112 (happiness followed by Representation) :king:

Wonders and Guilds
90 Grand River: Pyramids :goodjob:
108 Onondaga: National College :lol:
111 Grand River: Writer's Guild

Allies
55-71 Wellington
56 Zurich
61 Quebec City
87 Mogadishu

Austria has already married Zanzibar.

Ruins
Culture, Upgrade, Survivors, Mining, Camps, Culture, 95g, Survivors, Faith :)

Onondaga
Spoiler :
5 Scout
12 Monument
20 Granary
21 Worker (Citzenship)
24 Scout
29 Shrine
34 Worker 310g
36 Settler
41 Settler
46 Library
48 Worker
51 Workboat
53 Archer
55 Archer
57 Archer; Settler (Collective Rule)
60 Settler
63 Settler
65 Settler
68 Settler
71 Settler
74 Cargo Ship
79 Cargo Ship
82 Circus
83 Great Prophet #1 220f :goodjob:
86 Aqueduct
88 Workboat
92 Cargo Ship
93 Workboat
95 Mosque 200f
96 Longhouse :goodjob:
98 Forge
99 Workboat
100 Great Artist #1 -> Great Work :)
101 Trireme
102 Colosseum
103 Missionary 200f
108 NATIONAL COLLEGE :king:
110 Workboat
111 Stable

University in 2 :)




Technology
Spoiler :
9 Pottery
15 Mining (ruins)
16 Animal Husbandry
28 Trapping
35 Writing
36 Archery
42 Bronze Working
48 Sailing
55 Optics
63 Calendar
64 Masonry
65 The Wheel
71 Construction
74 Mathematics
81 Engineering
86 Iron Working
93 Metal Casting
102 Philosophy
103 Drama and Poetry
104 Currency
105 Horseback Riding
106 Civil Service
107 Theology
111 Education
 
We are following the usual liberty tree and founded a total of 8 cities. The intention is to maximize the number of archeologists and see what that brings, so we can compare that to other strategies.

So far the only Rapid Expan. type of try. Im impressed with all your cities and your production turns as well. Also you got some nice wonders and alot of space with this type of plan. Im really looking forward to your finish win or lose! My own game is turning ugly, I took a bunch of cities with my navy/army but I was late with my science and attack. I couldn't get my empire pumping out the science like Glory7 did after about turn 100 or so. IF you can try to get us a screen shot or two, Id love to see how your empire looks!
 
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