turn -1 proposal

[disorganizer]

as informationally(!) polled in this poll:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29875

it seems to make sense to further discuss the idea of a "turn -1" being implelented.

Now to the details of the proposal:

The "turn -1" idea is a onetime thing at the beginning of a new game. It means that the game setup itself, without any action being taken in the game, will be done offline and all necessary output will be screenshotted and the save posted on the forum.

These steps would be performed:
* The game setup will be entered as polled on, and to proove this screenshots are taken.
* The Save will be generated immediately after game setup. No action in the game is to be taken.
* The Save is to be posted in a appropriate thread for review by the community and to take screenshots of any screen needed.

Who will do this?
Thats what we could discuss. Options already mentioned were the mods and the pres of term 5 and the 1st pres of the new game. Up for discussion.

When will it be done?
To be discussed now. Options already mentioned were immediately, at the 1st of september or any other date. Up for discussion.

What are the advantages?
It will give us the possibility of having enough information to actually do things at the first real turnchat. The forum community can in total decide where to explore, where to settle instead of having a 0-turn chat at the beginning or having things to be decided at the chat.

Will it take anything away?
Well, except the excitement some people may feel when hearing the DP state: "ok, game created. I post it and by till next chat". NO. As exactly no action will be taken.

Will our rules need to be changed?
No. As the game setup does (see judical thread for detailed review) not belong to game itself and setting up the game can not be considered playing in advance nor playing at all, as the game will only be there after the creation, it is up to the administration being in command at the start of the game anyways.

Was it done before?
The 1st game was created that way i think. Any old guys left which know it exactly? I cant remember.


Now start the discussion.
After the discussion we should have a binding poll on the whole issue.
Poll options will be laid out in detail 24h before the poll and a judical review of the poll if not even a poll setup by judicacy will be requested.

 

[disorganizer]

The disadvantage of the 1st pres creating the game is we will get it earliest sept. 1st.
The advantage of having some neutral person do it would be getting it earlier.

 

[Shaitan]

We could have that same advantage if Chieftess did it. She's the Demo game pres, not just the Phoenatica pres.

 

[disorganizer]

Right, that was why she was in the info poll and she lost against "other". Other was mainly commented as the "new-game president". Thats the mail reason for me to put up this discussion again.

 

[chiefpaco]

I'd personally like to see the DP open a new game upon the first day of the new administration. I feel that is their job and do not think anyone else should "touch" the game. I'd prefer to start the new game when the new game starts.

Besides, if we played on the first day, when would the new government have time to plan the first moves? Things can not be decided in chat.

I can't remember how it was done exactly in term 1. However, it was a different time with no elections so it may be difficult to compare.

 

[Cyc]

I agree with cp. Creation Day is September 1st. Creation is done by the newly elected President in an open turn-chat. The original settler/worker combo is saved immediately as they appear (4000bc). No actions are taken until the next turn-chat, so newly elected Leaders can decide on their Department goals and possible game actions. I do agree with screenshots being taken of all the options selected.

In the first game, we went to 3500bc on April 1st. As our genesis has been archived somewhere, I'm not sure what date the creation was, but the original Leaders were already known as they were determined on a volunteer basis in March. So, I'm not sure how much planning was available to the Leaders in the begining of Demogame 1.

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

As I recall, there was not a whole lot of actual game planning. Mostly there was a lot of constitutional fixing from the Civ 2 format.

I do thank disorganizer for this well argued discussion thread.

However, I agree with those who feel there isn't a need to rush, and the DP of term 1 should be given the honor of opening the game.

 

[Shaitan]

Very, very little planning was done (and that's being charitable). First, there's not much game planning that can be done before a game starts. Second, we were all new to both our jobs and to the concept of the Demo game.

 

[disorganizer]

So what sense does it make to setup the game in a chat? Nothing would be done?!?

I can live with the new pres "making" and posting the save immediately at the start (00:00 on 1st of september) to be ready for the first (short) chat at maybe 3rd of september or 4th of it.
Though it would have been nicer to know it before... like in real live (hey, we are here... hmmm. where should we settle? Hey! we need a president!) ;-).

 

[Shaitan]

There is really no need at all for a public turn chat to start the game if there will be no activities taken during the turn.

Why post the option screens? Either the DP is trusted or they aren't. If a DP wants to start the game with options different from those specified all they have to do is take a screenshot of the correct options and then do whatever they want.

 

[disorganizer]

The shots would also serve as a reference ;-)

 

[Cyc]

Because Shaitan, I think the Creation Day Chat should be a special occasion for the citizens of the Demo Game. It's a new begining and everyone should have the opportunity to participate in moment. w

As far as the screenshots of selected options go, what difference does it matter if we all trust the DP or not. Why bring mistrust into the picture? We should, as Dis pointed out have reference screens to check for the next game or the game after that. We have nothing to reference now as SOMEONE took all the genesis discussions. We should have them for the future.

 

[disorganizer]

And this will also prevent discussion about whether some options, like preserve random seed, were really set or not.

Maybe we should even offer a thread in the forum to bring all creation information as well as the first save together with all screenshots in one source for easy reference. Like a turn thread, even if it should not be taken as a chat.
If we take it as a turn chat, then the info put into the thread should be extended to all screenshots necessary.

 

[Cyc]

Quoting Shaitan:
If a DP wants to start the game with options different from those specified all they have to do is take a screenshot of the correct options and then do whatever they want.


Shaitan, would you vote for someone who would do something that low and mischievious? (I mean besides Grey Fox?)

 

[Shaitan]

Originally posted by Cyc
Shaitan, would you vote for someone who would do something that low and mischievious? (I mean besides Grey Fox?)

I wouldn't even vote for someone sneaky enough to think up an end-around like that!

Seriously, I do not think we have any Ducks of Flanders here. I had not thought of the historical aspects of the screenshots so the only reason left for them in my evil little brain was checking up on the DP.