Turn 135 and Only Two Cities?

[rap33042]

It seems to take forever and a day for me to get the infrastructure up and running before I think it's time to start another city.
Is it just me, or is that normal for the rest of you?

Thanks,
Richard

 

[raystuttgart]

Is it just me, or is that normal for the rest of you?

Not for me.

1. I expand to my first capitol city to about 5 pop. (Depends of course on the special situation.)
2. I found 2 other Cities and expand them to about 5 pop as well - growing my capitol city to about 10 pop. (Depends of course on the special situation.)
3. I found 3 more Cities and exand them to about 5 pop - growing the previous 2 cities to about 10 pop and exanding my capitol city to 20 pop.
....

Summary:

I expand in a system of a "Pyramid" (of city generations).
The water (best colonists) trickles down from top to bottom. The earlier generations usually have priority.
Whenever I have reached a certain "threshold" I put the next colonists into the later city generation.

I varies a lot though depending on which colonists I actually get and how they match the cities. It is not as "fixed" as it sounds.
I simply try to focus on the earlier city generations but still growing younger cities as well.

----

However that is just personal taste.
And not necessary the most efficient and best way to do it.

 

[rap33042]

Thanks, Ray, for the quick reply. I, too, like to get some colonies built up pretty quickly, but WTP, for some reason, slows me down. Mainly, the Indians are always threatening me and light artillery is very expensive to buy in Europe.

How do you effectively protect them all in the beginning?

Thank you,
Richard

 

[raystuttgart]

How do you effectively protect them all in the beginning?

There are many tricks for early game:
(Depends on Map and Difficulty though.)

1. Get good relations with Natives (Missions, Trade Posts, Trading with Wagon Trains.)
2. Scout Rush to get many Treasures (Which is almost the best source of income in early game.)
3. Bell Rush to get many Founding Fathers (e.g for Natives and Scouting.)
4. Cross Rush to get many Colonists (which also includes e.g. "Town Guard" and other Military Professions.)
...

If you just focus on "Coloniy Build Up" (Cash Yields, Hammers and Happiness ) in early game you will have an issue.
"Coloniy Build Up" is usually a very successful strategy in midgame. (It is not the most efficient strategy before that though.)

Summary:

Being successful in WTP requires to make use of all features in your strategy- but very dependent on the game period.
Figuring out which you should use in which game period (early game, mid game, late game) is part of the fun.

 

[rap33042]

Thanks for the help.
Turn 60 and I have two colonies. They are weak as limp noodles.
Capital is at pop 7 and the second colony is at pop 4 (already!).
I have a third colony planned (I need it for Ore). I don't see that happening by the time colony #2 hits pop 5.
I think I'll try to rush that third colony and then sit on them for a while. I need defenses!

You've been a big help. If you have any other words of wisdom, I'm all ears.
Thank you,
Richard

 

[raystuttgart]

1. In early game: Focus on "Rush" strategies and take a risk.
--> It will either be extremely successful or you will fail.
(Which is no big issue though, because the game is not that long yet.)

2. In mid game: Switch to "Full Expansion" but also slowly reduce risk.
--> The "Rush strategies" will not work anmore
--> Thresholds for Immigration / FFs to high, Goodies taken, Natives already traded all good stuff ...

3. In late game: Switch to "Consolidation and Preparation" for WOI.
--> Conquer the last opponents, switch to Weapons Production, ...
--> There is simply no point anymore to further expand.
--> Grab everything you can that is worth it and cut off everything that is too hard to defend or not worth it.

 

[rap33042]

General guidelines like these really help.

I got that third colony settled. Now, I need a bunch of people to man them all.

Thanks, Ray,
Richard

 

[raystuttgart]

@rap33042 :

Simply experiment a bit.
Whatever is fun for you is the best strategy.

I personally tend to "min-max" in 4x-games.
It may not be fun for everybody to play that way though.

The early game is the most crucial phase though and "Rush Strategies" have proven very efficient there.
It really matters how many High value Trade Deals, Treasures, Founding Fathers, Immigrants, ... you grab early on.

 

[nci]

It seems to take forever and a day for me to get the infrastructure up and running before I think it's time to start another city.
Is it just me, or is that normal for the rest of you?

I'm mostly into scouting and piracy, and don't rush building settlements either. Typically have only 3 settlements very far from each other; sometimes I do capture and/or build more - only to give them to AI later.

 

[raystuttgart]

I'm mostly into scouting and piracy, and don't rush building settlements either.

I do not rush settlements either.
At least not in early game.

In early game I first focus on "Scout Rush" and "Bell Rush". Cash Yields, Military, ... mostly neglected.
If I get a good opportunity I otherwise also use Missioning / Trade Post / Haggling with Natives.
Any other good opportunities like a Master Carpenter or a Firebrand Preacher gladly taken along the way of course.

When mid game starts however I do "Expansion Rush" meaning I start playing a mixture of wide and tall.
(I build lots of settlements and also try to conquer first enemy settlements.)

In late game I focus mostly on "Consolidation and Preparation" - fine tuning of industry, preparing defenses, getting further FFs, ...
(Which may also include Wars against Natives just to level up my troops.)

-------

GameSpeed: Normal, MapSize: Gigantic,
(favourite Map: "Two Continents")

After 50 turns: Playing quite peaceful (best friend of Natives, using all opportunities to raise their attitude for mid game)
Maybe 3 to 5 settlements (ranging between 5 to 10 colonists )
Taking the most lucrative settlement places.

After 150 turns: Playing quite aggressive towards Europeans (conquering everything that is in my way, still leaving Natives untouched as far as possible)
Around 10 settlements (ranging between 5 to 20 colonists)
Filling the gaps, starting to prepare good production network.

After 300 turns: Playing moderate aggressive (conquering just the juicy stuff not yet taken, leading a few wars with Natives that do not like me anymore just to level up troops)
30+ cities (ranging between 5 to 60 colonists)
Going into consolidation and full scale "industriatlization" to prepare WOI.

-------

On Marathon thinks look very different of course.
You will need 3 times as long for the number of cities as I wrote above.

 

[rap33042]

@raystuttgart How do I get the "Two Continents" map?

TNX

 

[raystuttgart]

@raystuttgart How do I get the "Two Continents" map?

It is in the mod:

"Two Continents Gigantic"
(It contains all Nations and everything else the mod can offer.)

Just start a game with "Custom Scenario" and select it.
Then configure the rest of the options to your liking.

----------

It is one of our Scenario Maps - but uses randomization. --> Every game will be different.
(For Nations, Starting locations, Terrain Features, Goodies, Bonus Ressources.)

I created it a long time ago and fully opimtized it for playing wide with gigantic empires.
If there is any map that screams "Expand, Expand, Expand" then it is this one.

It really is my favourite map because AI usually also does very well there.
Playing on it sometimes feels a bit like cheating though.
Scouting is extremely powerful and the locations to settle are extremely good.

 

[rap33042]

Hi Ray,

Custom Scenario was the ticket. All this time and I never knew about all those maps. I've been using FaireWeather under Custom Game.
I've started a new game using Two Continents and look forward to how it goes. I only got 100 gold to start. Wow... that'll be slow to get going.

Thanks, you've been a big help,
Richard

 

[Uraeus]

It seems to take forever and a day for me to get the infrastructure up and running before I think it's time to start another city.
Is it just me, or is that normal for the rest of you?

I don’t think that’s normal.
For my part, in turn 135 I have a dozen cities and already a small solid army.

You must have a production speed problem in your base colony. Here’s my advice:
your first city must be dedicated to politics: you must place your units in the order: lumberjack/ carpenter/ farmer/ statesman then Preacher
Rule #1: Use specialists.
For buildings it is in order:
Village hall / dock / pier / chapel / village well (buy it to save tools) / Town hall / Lumber Mill / City hall etc.
Once consolidated, you can make a forge and possibly 1 or 2 industries, but that’s later in the game.

Then for all the following cities:, it is the same beginning lumber jack/ carpenter/ farmer / production ; production dependent on resources (cotton/tobacco/etc.).
For the buildings of the following cities it is the same but you rush the industry according to the available resources:
Village hall / dock / pier / chapel / village well (buy it to save tools) / production / Town hall / Lumber Mill / upgraded production / industrie 2 etc.

To make this second city you’ll have to buy units at the immigration dock in Europe. To have money, the best is to have scouts (indispensable: seasonned scout !!), 2 or 3 minimum. Otherwise trade in raw materials (bought from Indians). The production/sale of raw materials in the colonies can also be a solution but it is less efficient.
It is the scouts who will allow you to raise money quickly (and it will bring plenty of other benefits. I have already posted it, it is the most important unit in the game. You need Jacques Marquette.). All the first treasures they will make appear must be sold to the king at 50% to either recruit specialists or saved for the first gallion.

Edit: and of course get at least 1 pioneer asap to build 1) roads 2) improvements *needed*

That’s the beginning. Good luck and good game!

 

[ConjurerDragon]

You can´t really discuss about the number of turns and what has to be done or achieved until a specific turn without clearing before what speed/mapsize/cityplotradius a game is played at.

The normal game has only 300 turns - it is quite logical that in turn 135 of a 300 turns/years game you would have done more than in turn 135 of a 600 turns / seasons or more game (e.g. epic or marathon game speed).

A game with colonies that control a 2plot area will see far less cities than a game with cities with a 1plot area.

A game on a tiny map will run into the AI far earlier than on a gigantic map where you can settle a while before even meeting your rivals and having to divert resouces for defence from expansion.

 

[Uraeus]

lol conjurer, you joke

i think rap33042 don't need this.

 

[rap33042]

You can´t really discuss about the number of turns and what has to be done or achieved until a specific turn without clearing before what speed/mapsize/cityplotradius a game is played at.

The normal game has only 300 turns - it is quite logical that in turn 135 of a 300 turns/years game you would have done more than in turn 135 of a 600 turns / seasons or more game (e.g. epic or marathon game speed).

A game with colonies that control a 2plot area will see far less cities than a game with cities with a 1plot area.

A game on a tiny map will run into the AI far earlier than on a gigantic map where you can settle a while before even meeting your rivals and having to divert resouces for defence from expansion.

• Unlimited turns
• 2-plot cities
• Gigantic map

I am now using the Two Continent map that @raystuttgart suggested. It seems to offer much better colony locations, but I have not gotten any Missions or Trading Posts. The Indians are mad at me ;-(
I've been trading goods with them, but they are still annoyed.

 

[rap33042]

I don’t think that’s normal.
For my part, in turn 135 I have a dozen cities and already a small solid army.

Rule #1: Use specialists.

That’s the beginning. Good luck and good game!

I love it when I get a guideline like this.
Specialists, though, are hard to come by early on unless one gets lucky at the docks in Europe.

Thanks for the advice,
Richard

 

[Tugboatspotter]

It is in the mod:

"Two Continents Gigantic"
(It contains all Nations and everything else the mod can offer.)

Just start a game with "Custom Scenario" and select it.
Then configure the rest of the options to your liking.

----------

It is one of our Scenario Maps - but uses randomization. --> Every game will be different.
(For Nations, Starting locations, Terrain Features, Goodies, Bonus Ressources.)

I created it a long time ago and fully opimtized it for playing wide with gigantic empires.
If there is any map that screams "Expand, Expand, Expand" then it is this one.

It really is my favourite map because AI usually also does very well there.
Playing on it sometimes feels a bit like cheating though.
Scouting is extremely powerful and the locations to settle are extremely good.

I can't believe I never played this map before - it is VERY impressive. I really love the implementation of large rivers.

However, you are so right that it DOES seem like cheating. For me, it is too much yields everywhere. I can see the appeal, but it is too big and too rich.

Also, when I looked in the world builder and saw what it consisted of (a big striped lump) I was a big shocked. I can understand why this is the perfect map for some players, but it is too much for me.

 

[raystuttgart]

I really love the implementation of large rivers.

"Two Continents" is absolutely optimized to be the "show case map" to test all new features in WTP.
Whenever I implement new features I make sure that "Two Continents" gets adjusted so I can properly test the balancing in new games.

... when I looked in the world builder and saw what it consisted of ...

It is not intended to be authentic or geographically though.
It is 100% designed for "satisfying gameplay" instead.
(It will give you lots of sweet spots for settling and allows extremely good travel.)

I can see the appeal, but it is too big and too rich.

As I said, "Two Continents" is the most overpowered map in the game.

• Playing on it allows to create empires in sizes like no other map does.
• AI usually also does extremely well on that map as well.
• It is partially a "no brainer" though, once you found the best spots to start your first settlements.

-----

Summary:

If you want to play a geographically correct and immersive map: "RaR Americas Gigantic"
If you want to play a extremely optimised and partially overpowered map: "Two Continents"

The one is like a "Candle Light Dinner with exquisite Wine" and the other is like a "Flesh Fest Barbecue where you eat until you drop dead".
(Sometimes I prefer the first and sometimes I am in the mood for the second.)

I personally had awesome times with both.
(Sometimes I also just play with MapScritps of course.)

So for me:

• 40% of my games: Two Continents (when I am tired or stressed and want a relaxed game where I can experience full power of WTP - in terms of all new features - without thinking too much)
• 30% of my games: RaR Americas Gigantic (when I want to have a immersive game and am awake enough to imagine a story in my head and do not necessarily want a giant empire)
• 30% of my games: Faire Weather Tweak Ex Map Script (when I am feeling great, just want to experiment and want to be surprised, not caring about the size of my empire or full immersion)

----

By the way:

If you want a more challenging map than "Two Continents", play "Amerayca".
(It is also optimized for gameplay with WTP but designed for more challenge.)

It used to be my favourit map before we introduced 2 Plot City Radius.
(It plays best with 1 Plot City Radius.)