Turn Discusion T 95-110

[damnrunner]

We can assume they would upgrade though so it is really more like:
2 xbows
1 holkan
3 maces

Being on a hill, with 40% culture defenses, and a 5 turn fortification bonus for each unit we would not be able to take the city with a naval assault (of course if they are fools and don't upgrade - lets give it a go. But that won't happen). Should we land units and then attack they will have more time to upgrade units as well as to whip units which would also make taking the city unlikely.

This is why I say we go for the other cities and focus on pillaging. The CDZ beserkers will force Merlot to keep their capitol fairly well defended while we can ravage the island.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I favor capturing the cities. Especially The capital. Also, we should go for the jugular. Capture the Capital first and then quickly cut off their Iron supply. Without Xbows taking the rest of their cities will be much easier. Also, taking their capital will cripple their economy and their tech.

 

[Sommerswerd]

How many turns left until we capture Merlot Castle?

@ damnrunner- does Merlot have enough cash on hand for all those upgrades? I doubt it.

 

[2metraninja]

Nope, they dont have and will not have until 4 or 5 turns when we will storm the castle. They are at 100% money, but the beauty of my plan is that they use this gold to upgrade their units in Martathon, thinking that our attack is pointed there and they will think this till the last turn when we jump on the shore around Merlot Castle. At least I hope for this

 

[Sommerswerd]

Wait you said 4 turns a couple days ago...

Now you say 4 or 5 turns? Really what turn will Merlot Castle be ours?

 

[2metraninja]

I said 4 turns to our galleon fleet showing and our Marta SOD loading a couple of turns ago. But it will take 2 more turns to actually attack - while loading, we lose the movement and our galleons travel - thats 1 turn, then we embark on the shore - thats another turn lost. And we attack on the next. We obviously cant attack Merlot Castle amphibiuos, as they have more than one defender, and our catapults cant attack directly from the ships.

The things also get 2 turns slower from my initial calculations, because of the time we had to wait to receive the money for upgrade.

Merlot Castle will be ours if the goddess of the victory Nike so decides in 4 or 5 turns - it will vary depending on Merlot Marthaton SOD movement, as I dont want to give them even the slightest chance to have a decisive battle with our SOD, as we need it for more important deeds.
I can even decide to postpone the attack with 1 more turn, if this will give me the opportunity to move another 2 or 3 units from Nabaxica to join the storming and to increase our chances of taking and keeping under our control Merlot Castle.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Once we siege Merlot Castle, the main threat will be from a suicide attack from Merlots stack on Marthaton, or from them trying to ferry the stack back to MHI. As long as we sink their boats we should be fine. They dont have Compass yet, and they would need it first before they could get Optics. Until they get Optics, they have poor naval defenses.

After that, their last best hope to regain Marthaton will be a backdoor suicide attack with Catapults from the Mavericks. As long as we have enough defenders (especially Catapults) in Nabaxica, we should be able to fend them off long enough to capture MHI. Once we have MHI, we can destroy the MAvericks army, clearing the way to owning all of MArthaton.

 

[2metraninja]

Once we siege Merlot Castle, the main threat will be from a suicide attack from Merlots stack on Marthaton

I was thinking about this and even I think they will try coordinated attack from both sides - Merlots + Mavericks army. That's why I continue building army and made a galleon to carry this army from DI to Jennilund to reinforce Nabaxica garrison.

trying to ferry the stack back to MHI

This cannot happen, as our caravel fleet will be there, also our galleon fleet will be in the straights. We will have complete control of the sea, and they will have no fleet on Marthaton at this point.

After that, their last best hope to regain Marthaton will be a backdoor suicide attack with Catapults from the Mavericks. As long as we have enough defenders (especially Catapults) in Nabaxica, we should be able to fend them off long enough to capture MHI. Once we have MHI, we can destroy the MAvericks army, clearing the way to owning all of MArthaton.

I think (and secretly hope) that the blow from losing their core cities will be so strong, that King Slaze will lose any will to fight back Marthaton. Also our allies will do their best to second our success with MHI, so Mavs will have more urgent things to do then.

 

[2metraninja]

Next turn our soldiers will storm the Circus and most probably take it. What should I tell them when they breach through the gates - shall we spare the citizens or raze the city to the ground?

Personally I usually prefer to keep the cities I take and if I cant keep them prefer not to take them at all, but this time it is different. We are playing a game of attrition for so long, and the Circus is a thorn in our eyes for so many years, that it became a symbol. We dont want to spend soldiers to keep it if we can use them to take MHI cities, so I just want to raze it. the symbol of their resistance will be gone. Their hope too.

Say your thoughts.

 

[nabaxo]

Two galleons ready to strike next turn on the eastern cities of Merlot mainland. Shall we go?

Just got this PM.

 

[2metraninja]

Oh, what to do... I think it will be better to send a PM.
Can you wait few minutes for me to compose it, so you can send it?

Or I to send Sokralynnek PM?

edit:

I decided what to do. Can you ask Sokralynnek to check their mail, I will send them instructions and maps there?

 

[Sommerswerd]

Next turn our soldiers will storm the Circus and most probably take it. What should I tell them when they breach through the gates - shall we spare the citizens or raze the city to the ground?

Personally I usually prefer to keep the cities I take and if I cant keep them prefer not to take them at all, but this time it is different. We are playing a game of attrition for so long, and the Circus is a thorn in our eyes for so many years, that it became a symbol. We dont want to spend soldiers to keep it if we can use them to take MHI cities, so I just want to raze it. the symbol of their resistance will be gone. Their hope too.

Say your thoughts.

If razing is best in your judgment then raze. If we really are taking the circus next turn then that is great news General! What happened to the plan to invade MHI?

I also like to keep the captured cities if possible, but I dont like the idea of having to hold the city against their stack of Xbows. Maybe its better to remove their reason for fighting on Marthaton.

Just got this PM.

Should we let them go? The Berzerks will spread chaos on MHI. Plus they will take the brunt of the damage as Merlot uses all their whips to meet the CDZ invasion. Also, we have a written agreement to share the island equally, so it does not matter as much who captures which cities.

I decided what to do. Can you ask Sokralynnek to check their mail, I will send them instructions and maps there?

So what are we doing?

Great job everyone

 

[2metraninja]

Sent this email to CDZ:

Greetings to our brothers in arms of CDZ

We thank you for your efforts and readiness to support us fighting our common enemies. And your presence with 2 galleons are great news!

We are sending you a map of the MHI and its shores, so your pilots not to wander and lead your galleons for the sure victory.

However, our fleet is 2 turns late due to lack of money for upgrades and as we want to hit their capitol, but we can not show up and attack in one turn - they will see us because of their capitol placement, we suggest that you calculate and hit their city of Royal gardens the next turn. Even if you cant hit it the next turn, it will does not make big of a difference. They will eventually start to move their army, but their forces are not very strong on their home island - we have saw 3 xbows (one of them in the Gardens), 1 mace, 2 holkans and the rest are warriors and archers and we think they will have no enough money to upgrade many of them because they use all of their money for upgrades of their army at Marthaton.

We will embark the turn after the next ( t119) and we can guarantee that until this time their main forces will remain at Marthaton, so their home island will fall easy pray to our coordinated attack.

May Nike lead and protects your mighty berserkers.

+ a map of HMI so they dont need to guess where to sail.

I am in a big doubt. Here will post the 3 best courses for action in my opinion. I decided to give up a direct embarking or attack to their capitol, as it seems very dangerous and I am hired as a General, not a Hero

Plan 1

Somewhat secure plan. Mixed approach. Take the Baths by surprise, the Dungeon falls soon after for sure. Their capitol remains. Will fall after about 5 to 10 turns after heavy besieging and a lot of blood drawn.


Plan 2

Very secure plan. Embark, and then take the Baths and the Dungeon. Their capitol remains. Will fall after about 5 to 10 turns after heavy besieging and a lot of blood shed.
If they are stupid enough to reinforce Bath with Castle garrison, thats even better for us - we will kill their army there and for good.

Plan 3

This is going for the jugular with a knife well sharpened. This way we dont waste forces to capture Bath, and yet its garrison cant help the Castle.

Will appreciate any comments.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Thanks General 2metra for posting such clear, beautifully illustrated battle plans.

Of the threee proposals, I like Proposal 3 (go for the jugular) the best. This is why:

1. Main reason - Whipping potential. If we take the Castle, and CDZ takes the Garden, they will lose their whipping potential. The remaining cities are too small to get alot of whips... they only be able to get 1 or 2 whips out of the Bath and the Dungeon, most likely Catapults or crossbows.

If on the other hand, we attack the Bath and Dungeon first, then surely they will whip the Castle 6 or 7 times before we get there... I know I would if I was them. All these whips will be catapults if they are smart. If they whip 6 catapults in the Castle before we get there, it may make it impossible to approach the Castle without another wave of soldiers... That would suck.

2. Secondary reason - Morale. If we take their capital, they will know that it is over, and their moral will be broken. Their team will stop caring about the game, just looking forward to defeat so that they can refugee to other teams or just play Civ 5. That means less people helping with battle strategies, micro and such.

3. Third reason - Land division. If we are the ones to capture the capital, we are in a better position to negotiate with CDZ for the rest of the MHI. I prefer that we take the West (Castle and Bath) and CDZ takes the East (Garden and Dungeon), however, if we delay our assault on the capital, CDZ might pre-emptively take both Southern cities (Castle and Garden) leaving us with the puny Northern ones (Bath and Dungeon). If this happens, it will make things tense with CDZ, as they will argue that it makes more sense for us to take the North (b/c its closer to us) and them to take the South (b/c its closer to them). If we already hold the Castle, it will be pointless for them to ask us to give it to them, and they will know it, so they probably wont even bother asking, which will make diplomacy with them smoother.

 

[nabaxo]

I just have to say I concur with Sommer. Getting the capital before CDZ is a priority.

 

[damnrunner]

If we are going straight for the capitol, unload the units right next to the city to attack on the very next turn. While keeping our units on the hills makes for stronger defense - if we are confident we can take their capitol, then we should not fear being attacked in the open.

I still have concerns about whether our stack will be srong enough. Merlot can get gold for upgrades from Maveriks, and I think teh chance of use ctaching them offguards is fairly slim. I think we should ask CDZ to support our attack on the Capitol. If we can take the city we have won the war, so we should really commit all possible resources to it.

 

[damnrunner]

If we are able to capture the circus with our 2nd naval force I think we probably have to raze the city. I'd love to keep it - but those 10 Merolt xbows up north will be able to take it back I presume. I would raise the circus and then drop the units on the Merlot home island.

Building a Market in Ephesus. Can I suggest building an archer instead. It will give +1 happiness faster. The furs really don't give all that much gold and we are primary working deer anyway.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Id like the market for the extra cash. Also, if Sirius gives us the spire we get another happy face from whales.

I think the reason we have to get off the Galleons early is to keep them from moving reinforcements from the Bath to the Castle when they see us coming.

 

[2metraninja]

If we are going straight for the capitol, unload the units right next to the city to attack on the very next turn. While keeping our units on the hills makes for stronger defense - if we are confident we can take their capitol, then we should not fear being attacked in the open.

Well, as I said our force is very strong attacking force, but in defense we are a bit weak. If I was them I would try my odds attacking first and not waiting to be attacked.

I still have concerns about whether our stack will be srong enough. Merlot can get gold for upgrades from Maveriks, and I think teh chance of use ctaching them offguards is fairly slim. I think we should ask CDZ to support our attack on the Capitol. If we can take the city we have won the war, so we should really commit all possible resources to it.

Lately I am thinking a lot exactly about this. You are very correct with your concerns. We have about 50/50 chances of capturing the Castle if they get 3 xbows and 1 mace more. Now they have only 1 xbow and 1 mace. Our shortest time of actually storming the Castle is in 4 turns (we need to lose 1 turn bombarding the defense down to zero). Which means they will have 3 turns of whip/upgrade which transfers in 6 more xbows/maces. Which is a lot. Even if we land directly in the field near the Castle on t119 and assume we dont get attacked/destroyed in the open, bombard at t120 and attack on t121, we might be short on soldiers to make the actual killing after our catapults injure all their defenders down to 1-2 strength and this may give them time to use the gained experience for promotions which will be our doom.

I see 3 factors which can affect this and turn the battle for the Castle in our favor.

Factor 1 is our Fifth Galleon - if I take the Circus with no loses, we will have 3 more units able to attack the Castle from the sea with our Marta SOD on t121. This is great. But what if I lose 2 macemen to kill the only archer defending the Circus and hopefully capture it with the xbow left on board? This means this factor voids and our Marta SOD will get no support from our Fifth Galleon group.

Factor 2 is if Merlots move a lot of units to defend the Gardens - if CDZ are too away to actually attack the city the very next turn and finish their movement 1 or 2 tiles short of the Gardens, there is a good chance that Slaze will move almost everything he have to defend the city. Then its up to CDZ berserkers to do their job and hope Merlots will lose a lot of army there, so not much warriors/archers left for upgrading in the Castle and those holkans dont mess with our Immortals, which at this point I regret that are not Macemen. But alas, our whole strategy changed drastically and we have to live with that and try to play our cards the best possible way.

Factor 3 is after CDZ takes the Gardens, we to ask them to move their galleons and to attack the Castle with us.

If any 2 of those factors come into play, I guess we will be fine. If no, sadly we have to think about Plan1 or Plan2 options and to wait for enforcements from DI.

 

[nabaxo]

Can't we tell CDZ to like just wait outside the other part of the island and merely "threaten" it to give Merlot some time to reinforce that part and move away units from their capital?