Turtling Builder/Mechanic Exploitation Challenge: No Beelining + All buildings

[raxo2222]

I have fun challenge idea for Monarch+:
Always research techs in one column before going to next one.
Always build first cheap buildings (prioritize +production).

This means you will have bit outdated units compared to AI, but you can build more units than AI.
AI has problems with building chains and units, that can place buildings/resources.
As eras progresses it should be easier to win, as you get more and more buildings, that AI never touches.

I posted tricks to maximize production
Set "Hills/Forests" settings to max.
- Build city with >5 hills (set hills to max before starting game), its nicer if they have giving features on them.
- Build giving improvements first.
- Place citizens on tiles that gives most .
- Focus on giving buildings first.
Especially on your second and later cities.

Additionally you can maximize production by picking certain civics, religions and traits (impure traits + negative traits for adventurous ones).
Some corporations can boost production too, but that is for midgame (Standard Ethanol + Great Farmer = ).
There are production increasing (great) specialists.
You can farm captives and use slavery for even more

You could try Kation's spacemap or normal mapscript.
I'm not sure, if you would fare here better in 1000 turn speed or 4000 turn speed.
Units travel relatively faster compared to tech progression in slower speeds.

Essentially you would have to maintain peace in early part of game, and then you probably could start tearing AI in Medieval - Modern era.
Also you have to rely more on espionage, criminals, promotions and so on.

 

[Fermongu]

I actually play like that XD. I like slowly expanding and building all, and I need lots of hammers for that!

Right now I have a great continental campaign with Mongols on GEM map, the most fun so far I have played

I maximized production when possible, but I dislike promoting contamination and fire property, so no Industrialist trait, and I avoid some buildings too if they are not absolutely necessary (like smelters, smiths for metals). I keep my forests too, only build mines on resources or empty hills.

I are behind in tech, but I have a well developed military and a good defensive position, behind lots of taiga/tundra/desert terrain. Foolish chinese attacked me and I razed half of her country, adquiring experience for my troops and commander (they are truly OP). Uzbeks sent a surprise stack to attack a young city of mine poorly defended without me noticing. I thought I would lose that city, but the stack had crossed the Gobi desert and terrain damage had weakened them so much that they had half HP left when they reached the door of my city, and they ended up dying right there XD.

I just entered classical era (around -2800 BC, is that right?), save size is 10Mb and turn time is 2-3 mins. All the map I can see is already full of cities, and I expect america will be the same.

When fighting chinese, I saw a "stack" of 296 Medicine man! I will have to put a limit on some civilians too in near future, no way the AI can really need that much.

 

[raxo2222]

Fire property is inconsequential.
Other properties are easy to control.
You should have reached Classical era at around 2000 BC, so you were bit too fast.

Also you should report bug since 300 medicine man stack is bug and those only needlessly slow down game.

On what speed/handicap you are playing?

 

[Fermongu]

I tweaked upscaled research costs to be at +25%. With this value I get to Ancient at 6000-7000 BC. I will increase a bit to +30% in future play to match better at classical era.

I am playing marathon/emperor.

Buildings destroyed by fire are annoying. I try to keep it at 24 max to minimize the effect.

 

[raxo2222]

I tweaked upscaled research costs to be at +25%. With this value I get to Ancient at 6000-7000 BC. I will increase a bit to +30% in future play to match better at classical era.

I am playing marathon/emperor.

Buildings destroyed by fire are annoying. I try to keep it at 24 max to minimize the effect.

Are you playing on SVN or V38.5?

As for burned buildings I look at event log - event display is too unreliable for me.

 

[Fermongu]

I play on SVN.

 

[raxo2222]

I play on SVN.

Weird you are much too fast, maybe delete cache?
Its here: C:\Users\<USERNAME>\AppData\Local\My Games\Beyond the Sword

Lets see where you could tear AI apart despite not beelining and building all buildings:
Game Options:
Revolutions, various Barbarian options, Terrain Damage, Warlord units, Advanced Nukes.

Game mechanics:
Units, that can place buildings and resources (extra synergy with certain plant/animal using Corporations)
Criminals, Heroes, Leader Promotions (Warlords and other similar units), heavy merging of units.

Cities simply will be bigger and more productive, and you will have more research than AI eventually, as it never touches certain buildings, that should be built.
If you play on space map, then after Nanotech era you can build cities in space.

AI will steal religions, punks and wonders, but you have overporomoted overmerged deathstacks, and criminals wreaking havoc, and corporations that boost cities (or give XP to units).
You have a lot of gold for corporations, since you keep building all buildings.
Cities, that have all buildings are stronger against any properties too.

Effectively you are slow but surprisingly lethal, and AI is incapable of utilizing efficiently (or at all) certain mechanics.
To be honest someone could do that stunt on Monarch/Emperor handicaps (or higher if using options, that are bad for AI), they should know how to abuse certain stuff.
You should try to not be conquered before Medieval era though - AI loses competence in later eras because there are some stuff, that AI can't utilize efficiently.

 

[Fermongu]

In my mongol campaign, I just received notification that zulues reached medieval era! And I am still starting 2nd column of techs from classical era. I fear zulues will steamroll everyone after some time.... I should prepare for them!

A side note of lacking in science is that AI will build ALL wonders, I miss them

 

[raxo2222]

In my mongol campaign, I just received notification that zulues reached medieval era! And I am still starting 2nd column of techs from classical era. I fear zulues will steamroll everyone after some time.... I should prepare for them!

A side note of lacking in science is that AI will build ALL wonders, I miss them

I guess I have to increase research costs in eras.

 

[raxo2222]

@Somebody613 @Pit2015
What about this challenge?

Play on Nightmare and exploit mechanics, where AI is too dumb to use.
Don't beeline, that is research all techs in column before going to next column.

Bonus challenge:
Enable Tech Diffusion, Win For Losing and No Tech Handicaps, last one prevents humans from getting TD/WFL bonus.
Also don't trade techs with AI.

How long your mega-merged Hulk strong Brute with Captain America's shield can resist against more advanced enemy?
WAKANDA FOREVER!!! Or is it VIETNAM?

 

[Somebody613]

@Somebody613 @Pit2015
What about this challenge?

Play on Nightmare and exploit mechanics, where AI is too dumb to use.
Don't beeline, that is research all techs in column before going to next column.

Bonus challenge:
Enable Tech Diffusion, Win For Losing and No Tech Handicaps, last one prevents humans from getting TD/WFL bonus.
Also don't trade techs with AI.

How long your mega-merged Hulk strong Brute with Captain America's shield can resist against more advanced enemy?
WAKANDA FOREVER!!! Or is it VIETNAM?

I'm kinda already doing this.
TD/WFL gave me maybe a 10% increase in research ("5 added to 50"), which is totally insignificant compared to the difference caused by hunting efficiency variability.
And I'm BEHIND in Tech anyways, lol.

What's "column" - Era?
Then it'll be forever until I leave Prehistory anyways, lol,
And most probably NEVER, if I get overly BORED with it as it is (a 99.999% chance, if you ask me).

As of my Generals, you forget that they also GAIN XP all the time, so it's not so much about being Merged, than it is about being "buffed" (a +100% Str IS a +100% Str).
Unless AI learns to dogpile super-units with normal ones, or I start attacking at lower odds (and losing super-units to bad luck) - nothing is gonna happen to stop me.

Anyways, I think I'm gonna switch to Blitz now - and play the same TYPE of the game, yup.
Oh, and I also play with "Can't Raze Cities", because I want to capture ALL of them, loool.

 

[raxo2222]

What's "column" - Era?

Techs in same X coordinate.

Spoiler :

For example you must research everything in column with Printing Press tech, before going to any tech in column with Leadership tech.
You can always choose most important techs in same column first.

 

[Somebody613]

Techs in same X coordinate.

Spoiler :

For example you must research everything in column with Printing Press tech, before going to any tech in column with Leadership tech.
You can always choose most important techs in same column first.

Thought so.
Well, I chose something close: choosing the next Tech with the least turns required.
It doesn't work EXACTLY like what you want, but very much close to it.
It's just that it's annoying to click ALL the techs in order to align them like you want - too much work for too little gain.
Merely choosing the "leastest" tech is close enough, I say.
So here's MY save already, lol.
Played until I got Judaism in Jerusalem, hehehe.

 

[raxo2222]

Thought so.
Well, I chose something close: choosing the next Tech with the least turns required.
It doesn't work EXACTLY like what you want, but very much close to it.

All techs have same cost in same column.
So you would end up researching techs in same column before going to next, if it wasn't for bonuses from WFL/TD.

 

[Somebody613]

All techs have same cost in same column.
So you would end up researching techs in same column before going to next, if it wasn't for bonuses from WFL/TD.

I play this one with TD/WFL only for AI, lol.
And I think my method is good enough, unless I end up researching two or more techs per turn, so I'll have to choose them in the Advisor.
Eventually, I think.
Maybe even really soon.
Heck, I hate so much clicking for pretty much NO good reason, duuuude.
Anyways, not gonna play more today, so whatever.

Also, there's the problem with the Great People based research.
It allows for jumps ahead in tech, and I don't see it being fair to forbid it, no?

 

[Thunderbrd]

I look forward to eventually getting an improved unit AI that can live up to the game difficulty.

 

[raxo2222]

I look forward to eventually getting an improved unit AI that can live up to the game difficulty.

Currently you don't need beelining and full building micromanagement even on Nightmare, if you know how to train a dragon

 

[Somebody613]

Currently you don't need beelining and full building micromanagement even on Nightmare, if you know how to train a dragon

Oh, you DO need micromanaging, awfully so.
It's just DOABLE, lol.
Which is GOOD, if you ask me.
I hate games that deliberately make it impossible to play them, don't YOU?
And that Dragon is only needed if you WANT to expand, though in this case you don't have too many other options, if you don't want to stay even MORE behind.
But I'm quite sure I could keep it to ONE city and ONE General, and wouldn't FEEL any trouble for several Eras.
Like I said, AI doesn't seem to be smart enough to dogpile a much stronger unit with a suicide squad.
I do think I've seen FEEBLE attempts at it by Barbs (who tend to suicide anyways, lol), but not as an actual war strategy by a normal civ-at-war-with-me.
Sure, I haven't PLAYED enough serious games to see much of it - but, well...

 

[Somebody613]

Played some more.
Well, AI still sucks at judging the Human Player's capabilities.
Sure, I LOOK "weak", but maybe they should first check what my BEST units are capable of, loool.
And expansion is a fun race against the buck as well, hehehe.
I still find this rather enjoyable - and I think I'm gonna soon start wiping out "unnecessary neighbors", harharhar.

 

[raxo2222]

I wonder how it would work now: You researching all techs in column before going to next, and exploiting all mechanics, that AI can't use VS AI on Nightmare/Standard/Normal