U.N. Bug - Resolution fails when it should succeed

Borya

Warlord
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Oct 28, 2005
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120
Here's the screenshot.
 

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Washington vetoed the resolution by defying it. That's how the game works. Don't worry excessively: not only can YOU do it too, but there are severe penalties (happiness-wise) for doing so.
 
Ah I see.
I thought defying just allowed a nation to ignore the resolution (and suffer unhappiness), but not to veto it for the whole world.
 
I don't think that Defy means Veto. Veto means Veto and it isn't implemented. Defy means you get plenty of unhappiness and get demoted to Voting Member if you Defy.

I have attached another screenshot of a similar event. Several Defy voters. Should have passed by the numbers. If the behavior is not a bug, at least the text should be updated to make the situation more clear. Further, the Civilopedia should have some entry about how the Defy vote works (I've checked; it doesn;'t).
 

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Yes, it should be explained better. I used it once when the AI tried to steal one of my cities peacefully, and I got +5 unhappiness/city for the next 20 turns or so. Nasty.

I have read elsewhere that the defy just means the resolution doesn't apply to that civ, whilst otherwise, it passes if the vote count is over the required number.
 
If it's not a bug it should be a bug. It makes no sense how a resolution can pass and one backward nation defying it makes it null and void for everyone.:confused:

On top of that, it makes no sense that defying the resolution is tied to the vote at all. Why am I forced to defy it at the time of the vote, but don't have the option of defying it at a later point and time? Also, if I defy a resolution and later bow to the will of the UN or AP and go along with it, why I am I still penalized?

It feels to me like they rushed this one. They had an idea of how they wanted it to work, but went the way they did because it would be simpler and quicker to implement.:gripe:
 
Why am I forced to defy it at the time of the vote,
Do I say No, and hope its a no, or do I defy and dont tkae the chance of a Yes.
I think that it was decided at some point that this made more "Game"
The first time there was an AP vote to give a city back, I voted no, thinking I could then Defy it if it passed, the second time when I realised what was what, I was caught on a dilema, I had more votes at that point. So do I vote no or Defy... I think the way it is makes for a better game. (For cities anyway, and for when I want to defy or Not)
 
Do I say No, and hope its a no, or do I defy and dont tkae the chance of a Yes.
I think that it was decided at some point that this made more "Game"
The first time there was an AP vote to give a city back, I voted no, thinking I could then Defy it if it passed, the second time when I realised what was what, I was caught on a dilema, I had more votes at that point. So do I vote no or Defy... I think the way it is makes for a better game. (For cities anyway, and for when I want to defy or Not)

I do not see how it makes game sense for all of my citizens to get angry and revolt over me defying something that never even passed.:confused:
 
I do not see how it makes game sense for all of my citizens to get angry and revolt over me defying something that never even passed
Because you stood up in frount of the AP or UN and told them to go to hell, then all the worlds stories and films have baddies being your nationality, your are the pariah state
 
Because you stood up in frount of the AP or UN and told them to go to hell, then all the worlds stories and films have baddies being your nationality, your are the pariah state

Who exactly am I telling to go to hell if the majority of them vote no? On top of that, why am I forced to stand up and tell em all to go to hell prior to the resolution even passing?

If you still want to stand up and tell em to go to hell, by all means go ahead, but I personally in the interest of good governance and diplomatic relations would like the option:

No (Defy Resolution if it passes)

On top of that, none of what we're discussing answers the question as to why one little backwards nation can stand up and tell everyone to go to hell and they all end up getting free passes on the resolution.
 
If you still want to stand up and tell em to go to hell, by all means go ahead, but I personally in the interest of good governance and diplomatic relations would like the option:

No (Defy Resolution if it passes)
SO would I. But you wanted to know why you had sadness ATM, which was for the reason I posted
 
It is completely illogical to be penalised for defying a resolution which doesn't even pass.

What, exactly, is being defied?
 
I think in general the UN and AP text and presentation of the results of votes, your decision to defy it or not, and "veto" power should be fixed. I've always thought Civ's implementation of the UN (in all versions of the game it's been present in) has been weak and in Civ 4 it feels extremely rushed.
 
defy is the same concept as veto for this game in the AP and UN voting. otherwise there is no point to having defy - why would you defy a resolution and take all the penalties if you get nothing for it? otherwise everyone would just vote "no" ... the point is that you get to veto the resolution and prevent it from happening.
 
On top of that, none of what we're discussing answers the question as to why one little backwards nation can stand up and tell everyone to go to hell and they all end up getting free passes on the resolution.

if you are a full member, such as through sharing the same religion of the AP wonder, you are not a little backwards nation to that organization... you are a full member with same rights as the rest. if you defy a resolution, you do not get a free pass at all... you suffer major penalties and can lose your full member status. The tradeoff is that at least you could stop the resolution from passing no matter what anyone else thinks. Like I said, otherwise if you don't want to suffer the consequences you would just vote "no" and hope your side wins.

the point here guys is that this is an organization with EQUAL members and some non-equal members. If you meet the criteria for equal membership, you are no worse than the others, no matter what your military power or population.
 
Unfortunately the "defy" option vetos the resolution, albeit with some associated happiness penalties.

It's a shame that this is STILL implemented in such a messed up fashion. "Defy" should pull you out of the UN completely, so that you wouldn't have to follow the ruling, but would receive happiness/diplomatic penalties for doing so (and be unable to vote on future resolutions). "Defy" should only count as a "No" vote for the purposes of the other civs.
 
"Defy" should pull you out of the UN completely, so that you wouldn't have to follow the ruling, but would receive happiness/diplomatic penalties for doing so (and be unable to vote on future resolutions). "Defy" should only count as a "No" vote for the purposes of the other civs.

I second this notion. :scan:
 
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