Unique Units Availability and Upgrade Costs

[Mihnea]

Hello everybody!

I'm confronted with the issue of unique unit availability, that is this impossibility to recruit your unique unit after a technology provides a unit upgrade to your unique unit.

In my opinion, the civs hit by this anomaly in decreasing order of damage done, are:

- Celts - their Gallic Swordsman is supposedly made obsolete by Medieval Infantry and this change completely distorts their game and reduces the value of this awesome unit

- Iroquis - 2 of their Mounted Warrior are 10 shields cheaper than a Knight and, therefore, could be used effectively even after Chivalry is researched, due to their high attack

- Romans - their 30 shield legionnaire (pikeman + swordsman) is impossible to recruit since Feudalism, although I would much prefer a Legionnaire in a stack-of-doom, than a pikeman (for the same cost)

- Egypt - one should have the freedom to pay for a War Chariot to Knight upgrade or simply use War Chariots as a secondary force of, say, pillagers

- Hittites - same argument as for Egypt

- Korea - a lethal land and sea bombard unit becomes unavailable with the advent of artillery

- Portugal - their 2 attack Carrack is displaced by the 1 attack Galleon, a ship that one cannot effectively use it to attack caravels and galleons

There are probably more examples, but my point is that the unique unit for each civilization should remain available throughout the whole game. Can this be modded or has it been done already?


The second issue with the unique units is their upgrade cost, which only takes into account the shield cost of the standard unit the unique unit replaces, rather than the stats of the unique unit itself.

So, for example a Hoplite costs 20 shields, but its stats are identical to those of the Pikeman, which cost 30 shields. So, in my humble opinion, the upgrade cost from Hoplite to Musketman should be (60-30)*3 = 90 gold, rather than (60-20)*3 = 120 gold.

Even for in-between units the cost of upgrade should be slightly adjusted. Say, for example, a Samurai has +1 defense, so its cost for upgrade purposes could be 75 shields, and as such, an upgrade to Cavalry should cost only (80-75)*3 = 15 gold, rather than (80-70)*3 = 30 gold.

Again, can this be consistently modded into the game or has it already been done?


All the very best,
Mihnea

 

[vmxa]

Welcome Mihnea,

You can continue to build your UU as long as you have not had your GA. The case for the upgrade cost may be valid, but no designer is going to bother putting in the time and code to deal with such a small issue.

Often players will not upgrade units anyway and just build replacements from scratch. If you are playing in games that are some what difficult for you, you tend to not have the gold for a lot of upgrades.

Knight types to cavs are the main exceptions and even then, I often will not be able to afford very many. If in an MP government, the older units are fine for MP duty. If not, then I will disband them to speed builds and save support cost.

 

[Mihnea]

Thanks vmxa for your quick reply!

I know about the availability of the unique unit until the Golden Age is triggered. But I want to use the UU even after the GA begins. Say, to flood the enemy with Legionaries or Mounted Warriors for the duration of the GA.

Sure, one can avoid certain techs for that, but it's a cumbersome strategy in the end.

 

[CommandoBob]

Unless you modify the game, what you want will not happen.

There is a section in the forum that discusses how to modify the game, step by step.

One thing to consider, from what I've read in that section, is to decide when each UU will not be available to build; that is, when does it become out-of-date.

 

[timerover51]

Hello everybody!

I'm confronted with the issue of unique unit availability, that is this impossibility to recruit your unique unit after a technology provides a unit upgrade to your unique unit.

In my opinion, the civs hit by this anomaly in decreasing order of damage done, are:

- Celts - their Gallic Swordsman is supposedly made obsolete by Medieval Infantry and this change completely distorts their game and reduces the value of this awesome unit

- Iroquis - 2 of their Mounted Warrior are 10 shields cheaper than a Knight and, therefore, could be used effectively even after Chivalry is researched, due to their high attack

- Romans - their 30 shield legionnaire (pikeman + swordsman) is impossible to recruit since Feudalism, although I would much prefer a Legionnaire in a stack-of-doom, than a pikeman (for the same cost)

- Egypt - one should have the freedom to pay for a War Chariot to Knight upgrade or simply use War Chariots as a secondary force of, say, pillagers

- Hittites - same argument as for Egypt

- Korea - a lethal land and sea bombard unit becomes unavailable with the advent of artillery

- Portugal - their 2 attack Carrack is displaced by the 1 attack Galleon, a ship that one cannot effectively use it to attack caravels and galleons

There are probably more examples, but my point is that the unique unit for each civilization should remain available throughout the whole game. Can this be modded or has it been done already?

All of these changes can be handled with the editor. Check in the Creation and Customization forum for a large number of how-to posts to do this. Is it mainly a matter of changing the upgrade path or adjusting technology settings. However, in adjusting the upgrade paths, you need to make sure that you are not causing problems for other units upgrade. You need to be careful that making what seems to be one small change does not turn into a big headache. I have been there and had to deal with that.

The second issue with the unique units is their upgrade cost, which only takes into account the shield cost of the standard unit the unique unit replaces, rather than the stats of the unique unit itself.

So, for example a Hoplite costs 20 shields, but its stats are identical to those of the Pikeman, which cost 30 shields. So, in my humble opinion, the upgrade cost from Hoplite to Musketman should be (60-30)*3 = 90 gold, rather than (60-20)*3 = 120 gold.

Even for in-between units the cost of upgrade should be slightly adjusted. Say, for example, a Samurai has +1 defense, so its cost for upgrade purposes could be 75 shields, and as such, an upgrade to Cavalry should cost only (80-75)*3 = 15 gold, rather than (80-70)*3 = 30 gold.

Again, can this be consistently modded into the game or has it already been done?


All the very best,
Mihnea

As indicated, the upgrade cost is a matter of hard coding. The only way that I know to change the cost in the editor is to go to the general settings page, and change the shield value in gold under the Hurry Production section. Just remember that will effect the cost of all of the upgrades, not just the one unit. You might want to carefully consider that before doing so. I modify the game quite a lot, but that is one setting that I have not tampered with.