Unique Wonders

[General_Craig]

How about a unique wonder for each civilization, that can only be built in the capital?

It will provide different benefits based on the civilization, and would represent a famous landmark from the real-life capital city of that civilization.

Some that I have thought of so far:

England: Houses of Parliament - can change civics without anarchy from construction.
United States - Washington Monument - -50% War Weariness
France - The Louvre - +25% Culture in the city
Aztecs - Great Pyramid of Tenochtitlan - +3 in the city


Apologies if this idea has already been posted, couldn't find anything like it using search.

 

[Diamondeye]

... I think the idea is fine, but it needs refining ... First of all, you should be able to choose hwat city you wanted to build it in - not capital-only.
Second, the effects are to be balanced:

England: Houses of Parliament - can change civics without anarchy from construction.
United States - Washington Monument - -50% War Weariness
France - The Louvre - +25% Culture in the city
Aztecs - Great Pyramid of Tenochtitlan - +3 in the city.

England: Houses of Parliament is too overpowered - you gift them half a leadertrait!
Washington monument is fine, maybe a bit inferior as it would come in late (no?) where jails are already in place if you have lots of WW.
The Louvre is fine, but I think the Great Pyramid of Tenochitlan maybe coincides a bit too much with the already existing wonder... Sheez... what's the name... Anyway, temple of the sun might sound better.

 

[General_Craig]

Yeah, Houses of Parliament are overpowered I guess, perhaps only gives the bonus for changing government and economic civics.

I see your point about the Washington Monument being underpowered due to jails, maybe could remove all war weariness from the city it is built in.

Some other ideas I've had:

Greece - Olympics, +2 health, +6 commerce in the city
Ottomans - Fatih Mosque, +2 culture, +2 in city; +3 if you have a state religion
Chinese - Temple of Heaven, +1 food on grassland tiles in city radius, +2 culture

 

[cassembler]

I dunno, I'd almost prefer these become unique buildings instead of wonders. All of the wonders already in the game are, by definition, unique. Maybe each civ's palace gets a unique bonus built in?

That being said, I'd agree overall that unique buildings/ units/ leader traits are a little too... homogeneous for my tastes. I'd like to see some more dramatic bonuses for greater diversity.

 

[Diamondeye]

I dont think we should focus that much on buildings, after all, in BTS, each Civ has its own UB, I think we should focus a bit more on UUs, and make some of them even more different that their original. Take swordsman. We have (atleast what I know of) 2 Uus instead of swords: Jaguars, -1, reqs no iron, and I think they have woodsman 1.
Preas, +2 but no +% against cities.
There is great versatility here, while, skirmishers replacing archers gives them 1 more and 1 Firststrike chance more. This makes a good unit, but nothing you cant promote an archer to be - C3 and D1 would do the trick nicely, per example.
How about this:
Skirmisher, Malinese Unique Unit.
3 , 1 . 1 First strikes. Ignores first strikes. +50% against archery units.
This would:
1) Create a more "unique" unit.
2) Give a more realistic view of some units (Panzers as example, I think they should have a strength bonus instead of Collateral...)
3) Twist the game a little by giving UUs even more specialization.

For further suggestions: Dont make a longbow UU - these are imba enough already

 

[korny3354]

good idea, but id rather see that the national wonders be the unique wonders, they can be the same but minor changes to reflect the nation and another grafic/name depending on the nation, like the Heroic Epic for viking mpire could be the same +100% military prod but be named, statue of Oden/altar of oden and also give +2 exp to axemen since they already havetheir special unit middleages they get a special bonus before that also, would give the the same desired flavor u wanted maybe?

 

[GuitarHero]

India: Gandhi's tomb, +1 Population -50% War Weariness Req: Mass Media

 

[GenocideBringer]

The Washington Monument reducing War Weariness...I don't know if that makes sense. Are Americans really well known for their lack of war weariness?

 

[GuitarHero]

Zulu: Great Zimbabwe, +2 commerce, +1 culture +10 defense.

 

[Antilogic]

Unique wonders have been posted time and time again with slight variations on a theme, but they really don't catch on. Wonders in the game already unique, so having different versions of the same world wonder doesn't make sense. This idea is different in the fact that each civilization essentially has an extra national wonder, but I'm going to say with different starting techs, traits, UUs, and UBs, the leaders and Civs are differentiated enough for my tastes. Overloading the complexity is a surefire way to make a game un-learnable and thus un-playable except to a few fanatics, like MoO3. I would suggest keeping this in a mod.

 

[GuitarHero]

I don't see what's so complex about Unique Wonders............

 

[Antilogic]

Here's what I have to do when picking a civilization: figure out what kind of game I want to play, like builder or warmonger, try to do something besides domination victories, etc. Then, I have to pick a Civ, considering its UU, UB, leader traits, and starting techs. I don't want to have to consider another level, a unique wonder, as well.

What I'd rather see are more differentiated unique buildings: instead of having so many +2 health or +2 happiness UBs, why don't we craft more unique bonuses for the already existing UBs? No UB helps war weariness, for example (besides the Indian Jail UB, but that's part of the default building--no UB improves war weariness would be more accurate). No UB increases military production. No UB provides a greater/different bonus if you are running a state religion.

If anything, I think this is evident that people feel discontent over having a great system like UBs that aren't being used to the maximum potential to differentiate civilizations. I'd vote for fixing the already implemented solution instead of this.

 

[GuitarHero]

Well, how 'bout Unique National Wonders? I understand your plight, Antilogic, but every Civ has a weak part, most people just ignore that part.

I still think it's a good idea.

 

[Antilogic]

Well, how 'bout Unique National Wonders? I understand your plight, Antilogic, but every Civ has a weak part, most people just ignore that part.

I still think it's a good idea.

I've voiced the same discontent over any kind of "unique" wonder, whether national or world. I really don't think Civ needs too many more "unique" features for structures--buildings are enough. Think about it: the Firaxians had enough difficulty coming up with 34 (is that the number of civs?) "unique" buildings already, and they aren't all that great. Now, you want an extra 34 ideas for national wonders?

I'm sick of the overlap already with unique buildings (the units, I think, have a little more variety, but not by much). Now, you are proposing a system that will simply add more duplicates into the game--indeed, adding more "unique" systems like this may have the exact opposite effect of what is intended: it will make Civs more like each other rather than more differentiated. Sometimes, less can be more.

 

[GuitarHero]

I understand you're pissed, but this could just be in a MOD if your getting in a twist about this so badly.

Sheesh.

 

[Antilogic]

I understand you're pissed, but this could just be in a MOD if your getting in a twist about this so badly.

Sheesh.

It would be in a mod anyway, because at the moment there is not a new Civ4 expansion on the docket, nor do I expect there to be one. However, I'm not taking a hostile tone here, and I apologize if I have seemed to indicate to you otherwise.

 

[GuitarHero]

You haven't, Antilogic. Er, not much, but thanks for the apology. Even if it's not nessacary, it's nice to see that there is still civility in this world. I'm pretty sure if someone gave Soren or Sid a packet of $100's they might be convinced to make a new Expansion.

 

[korny3354]

to be honest most civs have many unique buildings and units in reality, thats why i would like them in the game, and its not hard to "come up with" unique building for civs if u just study some history its very easy if u have connectiong to the internet ^^ like leaning tower of piza, added by rhye in his mod but could be a replacement for nation epic for roman empire, ofc so many unique stuff needs balanceing if it is to work in multiplayer and so on, so i guess ill hafto agree to leave it out.

 

[GuitarHero]

There's no reason to leave it out, maybe someone should try to get it to work in the game.

 

[Antilogic]

to be honest most civs have many unique buildings and units in reality, thats why i would like them in the game, and its not hard to "come up with" unique building for civs if u just study some history its very easy if u have connectiong to the internet ^^ like leaning tower of piza, added by rhye in his mod but could be a replacement for nation epic for roman empire, ofc so many unique stuff needs balanceing if it is to work in multiplayer and so on, so i guess ill hafto agree to leave it out.

It's not so much finding subjects to depict for the game, but actually giving them all unique effects. I loathe the current system that has so many UBs with simple bonuses like +2 happiness or +2 health...it's really overused. The problem with adding a new unique structure, whether a second UB or a UW of any kind, is that you are going to increase the overlap.

I would rather have one UU and one UB per Civ that are completely unique that give the game a different feel rather than two UUs, a UB, and a UW or some other extra combination with several UUs and UBs sharing similar benefits and bonuses.