Unofficial Science Solutions Thread

[Exsanguination]

Post your tips on expanding your civ's knowledge here (mainly for me!). I've been havign troubles on the slightly higher levels (regent, prince, even warlord) keeping up with the AI. What are some good patterns to follow when researching techs? buying techs? and most of all, getting the techs at faster 1 every 40 turns!

 

[Massada Feff]

On regent and somewhat on monarch it is possible to stay with and exceed the AI's science output, but its costly to do. The key here is gold and empire income; early on the computer will expand quickly and trade there civ's starting knowledge with the other AI's, the key here is to trade your starting knowledge as well and get a few advances then broker your new advances quickly before the AI does. For the first 2 ages concentrate on staying technologically viable rather then advanced. Land grab and invade cities that have alot of lux resources then trade off the resources for the comps tech; later on once you get a higher tech then the computer you can trade the lux off for cash, when this happens increase your science slider bar incrimentally till your turns to tech start to drop. Tech straight for monarchy then communism; then military tradition. At monarch and higher expect to spend 80% of your total game time at war with someone, especially smaller empires that have alot of trade goods. War slows the comps tech down, as does the low access to trade goods (as trade goods lower unhappyness and increase cash flow). Play comps off each other as well with alliances, trade embargos, and mutual pacts; then make peace and let them waste time and effort fighting each other. Eventually you should be extorting lots of cash by tech and resource brokering; and sitting nicely at an 80-90% research budget while still making a profit. Its hard to outech the computer as one civ gets the tech they will broker it off, so expect to stay 1-2 techs ahead at most, stay current on there advancements and be the first to broker it out. A solid infastructure will be the key, geting better ships and units out quicker while crippling nations budgets will keep you on the offence; dont forget as you get the map to make notes on where all the strategic resources are as well as lux resources; and bombard em down in times of war, no oil; no tanks... hope this helps.

 

[diamon]

Yes, it can severely put a crimp in the AI's plans to cut off their allowance of resources or luxuries which you're exporting... I can't say anything for science yet, I'm having a hard time staying ahead on Monarch level difficulty, I don't want to think about what the higher diffs would be like.

A good resource like horses or rubber that you can trade without too much fear can net you nice amounts of gold per turn. Always ask what they will offer, the offers may surprise you. I cornered the market on saltpeter by sheer luck and traded it off to the French and Russians in one game, and simply cut them off a while before I went to war with them. It was rough till I got most of their gunpowder-based units dead, but it was a cakewalk after that...

I'm not doing it quite right yet though, I just discovered synthetic fibers in 2019, so my suggestions may be totally useless. YMMV.

I'll check back and see what others say here.

 

[jc011]

For me...I will go straight to Monarchy with my techs...If you haven't noticed already that the science rate doesn't change much in despotism. AFter that, my science rate can increase a bit. Trade techs with other civs that you meet. try to sell techs, resources for gold per turn...do this with as many civs as you can..You can endup changing your science rate to 80%-100%. I once had 450 gold per turn coming in from other civs, my science was at 100%. Buy as many techs as you can early on, since you will most likely be behind.

 

[GeneralHotRod]

I like to keep the computer worried about war. I am currently playing a regent game as the Americans. I was able to get an early horse resource. Then I went to war. I kept these short and within stated goals everytime. I would take a group of horsemen, knights or cavs, take a city or two with a key resource, then move toward the enemy capital. If you have an invading army within sights of an enemy capital you can extort a lot of gold from the enemy for a peace treaty. This helps to keep the enemy from advancing quickly.

When war is not feasable the science broker works well.

 

[benjdm]

Just a late game strategy I am finding useful - I set my science at the minimum required to get the next tech in 4 turns. Then when it is down to one turn, I set my science to the minimum to keep it at one turn - there's always an excess of bulbs so I rack in the money on the last turn.

 

[Sam_Catchem]

Keeping up in Science is a pain on the higher levels. I am playing a lot of Monarch and it is a huge undertaking. It depends on geography. If you are on a continent with other Civs..you can trade and trade and trade. Then set your rate to 0-10% and go out and kill off your neighbor..and sue for what he has got.

If you are on an island. Good Luck. It is possible, but the odds are against you. By the time I get mapmaking (I shoot for it)..when you encounter the other civs they are way ahead of you. You have to turn your science down again and just buy your way back to the top. I don't really have a good strategy if you are on an island other than that.

Now..I am coming to think that the Great Library is very important. I was in a extremely long war with the evil French. The boxed me in early..very early. I had only 3 or 4 cities. I made barracks just in time for them to declare war on me. I had to set my tax rate high to pay for all my swordsman and archers. I fended them off..and started to turn the tide. I took a city of theirs and the tide turned to my favor. I kept pursuing and then I took Paris. It held the Great Library. Suddenly I got like 8 techs and was on par with everybody else. So..I think now I am going to try to shoot for Literature ASAP if I am on an island. If I can get the Library..I can get even with the others.

 

[tetley]

I'm playing the game-of-the-month #2 right now, which is a Monarch game. I just got Industrialization and railroads at 1210ad, and I have yet to set my science over 0%. For that matter, I haven't even built any libraries, and I'm a Scientific civ (this comes at a cultural cost, though). Every single one of my techs was either a goody hut, extorted, or bought.

I'm even with all the other civs scientifically, and I net +1200 gold a turn at 20% luxury, just because I resell all the techs I get. The minute I had hit industrialization, I blew my wad of >5000 gold and hurried factories out of all my high-shield cities, so now I clearly out-produce everybody. A couple REALLY key cities I rushed a Coal Plant to boot, to win some Wonder races. And even after all that, I've already made all 5000 gold back.

Once I hit Hoover, I plan on getting the Libraries and Universities and making my move scientifically, so I can win the Wonder races. Particularly the UN.

 

[eMarkM]

Tetley's advice sounds like a paradox, but it's true. Sometimes setting your science to nothing or a token 10% gets you the best results--at least in the early game.

This advice is best for Monarch and up where the AI gets bonuses. I'm playing Emperor games now and you're way behind very early. In those cases loads of cash is more important than science rate as you'll never be able to keep up anyway. Here's how you get your science:

1) goody huts - works best for Monarch, on Emp and Deity expect a lot more barbs, they're not as reliable for tech.

2) trade - explore like crazy early, get at least 3 warriors/scouts going and find the others. Most civs start out w/ different advances, so trade w/ them the ones you don't have. Work that diplomacy constantly.

3) buy it - set science very low in early going. You have zero chance of catching the AI by putting science at 100%. You'll still be behind and you'll be broke to boot. Set it to 10% and you're guarenteed to have the biggest cash horde. Use it to buy tech, some of it you'll be able to sell off to others to recoup costs.

4) tribute - far and away the best strategy is to pick on a neighbor. Take as many cities away from them as you can until they will accept your envoy. Then force them to give you tech for peace. If you press them hard enough, they'll give you every tech, all their treasury, gold/turn and maybe even a city or two. Sometimes this alone gets you even w/ the leaders.

5) skip optional techs - some of these you don't really need. Uh, like Monarchy, IMHO. I go straight for Republic and skip being King. Free artistry in another. You can usually trade these on the cheap once your well in middle ages.

Great Library - some say it's a must, I've never built it myself on upper levels. The above 4 points are enough to get you even so I haven't needed this.

At some point, you'll take the lead and at that point I change tactics. I'll jack science up to the point where I'm just in the black per turn. I usually have a bunch of cash from science being so low and what I get from selling tech, luxs and what I get in tribute. From here I shoot for getting that 4 turns/tech barrier by switching to Democracy. Once your in that "4 turn" zone, you can often set science fairly low and continue to get huge amounts per turn. Use extra cash to modernize army and rush improvements.

Once I'm firmly in lead, I won't sell tech to others. Maybe some old tech to some backwater power, but never the most modern stuff to the civs nipping at my heels. I usually go for win by space race, so you need to maintain a tech lead and I don't want to give them an advantage. I usually have a 3-4K cash reserve by then and don't really need the extra money.

e

 

[Moulton]

I usually go for the Great Library, but rarely get anthing from it. Not sure it is worth the effort. It does keep them from gettim anything from me, but If I am behind there isnt much to get
Broker techs, I try to keep the mob more than one behind me. Except for the one or two serious challengers, the rest wont make use of it anyway, and it keeps them poor, so they can't build a war machine.
I hit the modern era this game with over 10000 in the bank. 300-500 per turn coming in and still tech in 4 turns. I can easily afford to rush the temples and libraries in new cities and start the culture flowing. As it happened I did not get GL this game, but have gotten almost every wonder since the middle ages. I should have the Cure for Cancer in a few turns. I built factories in every major city when I hit industrialization--no need to rush them, there was nothing to build. I could put a few Men-of-War out, but I am at peace, and there is nothing significant on the sea anyway.
All this, and only three luxuries on the entire continent. If I don't find oil and rubber--well there will be another war.

I will rule the seas, even though this is not really a naval game.

 

[tetley]

If I ever get the Great Library, it's a consolation prize because I lost the Pyramids race. The Library's still nice, though, because you don't have to pay money to some guy who's ALREADY the tech leader.

 

[OneInTen]

One point to remember with the great library if you're stuck on an island - two civs that you have contact with must know the tech before you get it. So the great library is useless to you until you've met at least 2 other civs (hopefully before education!)

 

[Sam_Catchem]

Originally posted by OneInTen
One point to remember with the great library if you're stuck on an island - two civs that you have contact with must know the tech before you get it. So the great library is useless to you until you've met at least 2 other civs (hopefully before education!)

Thanks, That is good to know. That old Civ2 Great Library just aint the same.

I am using this 10% deal now and not knowing it. I am usually finding myself in an early war. I need the money to keep my military going.

My question is how much do you barter for tech early on? I tend to be impatient and when they come to me with an offer I take it. I should be shopping more, no?

 

[Arrian]

Haggle with them. Get the absolute best deal you can. If they offer you code of laws for 100 gold, they will probably take 75 or even lower.

The Great Library can be immensely powerful, or it can suck, depending on the situation. I nearly always gun for it. Like Mark, I'm all about shooting for Republic, as I think Monarchy is a waste of time and effort. Setting your science rate low in order to buy tech is good for another reason. Once you switch to Republic, you're gonna be short on cash, believe me. You will need some money lying around until you can get some marketplaces up and running. Speaking of which, get currency asap.

The amount you can afford to spend on research is limited by the total commerce of your empire. Once you have a large, well developed empire, science is no longer a problem. So, fighting an ancient war and extorting a bunch of techs is generally a good idea, along with judicious use of your treasury to buy some others. Then settle down, switch to republic, build marketplaces, banks, universities, go democratic... get Copernicus and Newton (same city if possible). Your science rate will improve dramatically.

The higher the difficulty level, the bigger the AI's initial lead will be. You should be able to keep pace early (and kick butt late) up to and including Regent level, as there are no AI bonuses on that level, and AI disadvantages on Chief and Warlord. After that, it gets tougher, but usually involves either beating the AI with a large stick or just biding your time and catching up later.

-Arrian

 

[eyrei]

I often aim for the Great Library because it allows you to completely neglect technology as long as you have a lot of contacts. I have several times gone from technologically backward to second or third place in one turn as the library is completed. Sometimes I am even catapulted into the middle ages, and I have not given any of the AI civs money to build their empires. Of course, sometimes I build it, and then discover that someone else is about to discover education. The culture points are still nice though.

 

[Kulture]

The other simple option is simply to force the AI to give you their techs. In a recent game I was well behind in the tech race and so went on the offensive. All the other Civs were at about the same tech level - they'd obviously been trading, but I had little to offer as was left behind.

I declared war on the Germans and captured or razed every city they had except their capital. With troops outside their city they then gave me EVERYTHING they had in exchange for a peace treaty. And I mean EVERYTHING - five techs, contact with other civs, all their gold, World Map and a couple of workers.

 

[eyrei]

Ahhh. Violence IS often the answer.