Unstoppable Celts

[morchuflex]

Hello.

I have a real problem with the Celts.
Each time they are on a continent with other AI civs, they end up controlling the whole continent. As soon as they can grab an iron deposit, it's basically over. They start building nothing but Gallic swordsmen, and just slaughter everyone else on their continent. Unless they start in a poor location (toundra, desert...), I have yet to see any other AI civ being able to defeat them. A human player can do that thanks to better tactics, use of terrain etc. But the AI can't. Therefore, each time they're on the game, I end up facing a huge Celtic empire. Since I play mostly on archipelago maps, the problem is not as severe as it would be on other map types. But it's still a real pain.
Any suggestions? Or is the GS simply too unbalanced?

 

[thetrooper]

I think that the Gallic Swordsman is too powerful. But they are rather peaceful in my games. Leave them out next time you start a game.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Celts, Mayans and even more Sumeria are clearly the Civs handled best by the AI.
AGR is clearly the strongest AI trait: The AI tends to starts Settlers to complete before that city reaches size 3, this obviously happens a lot less with AGR Civs.

Sumeria is so strong in the hands of the AI because after a Settler is finished the AI will wait for a Defender before sending it out - and Enkidus cost only half of a Spear (that btw is the reason why the AI has such problems with Carthage and their 30sp Numidians).
Celts and Mayans often trigger an early GA with the Pyramids, allowing them to expand faster than any other Civ.

MIL and especially COM are traits that don't help the AI that much, so Iroquois and Aztecs are not that powerful in the hands of the AI than in the hands of a Human.
EXP is a good AI trait, but the Chasqui is sooo bad...
SEA is clearly the least benefitial trait for the AI (no Suicide Runs, and Curraghs are an absolte rarity below Sid).

 

[norwegianviking]

Do what I do, wait until medival times, you get there and their little Gallics are no match for the new units (just pray they arn't very high on the tech tree).

 

[dgfred]

Celts, Mayans and even more Sumeria are clearly the Civs handled best by the AI.
AGR is clearly the strongest AI trait: The AI tends to starts Settlers to complete before that city reaches size 3, this obviously happens a lot less with AGR Civs.

Sumeria is so strong in the hands of the AI because after a Settler is finished the AI will wait for a Defender before sending it out - and Enkidus cost only half of a Spear (that btw is the reason why the AI has such problems with Carthage and their 30sp Numidians).
Celts and Mayans often trigger an early GA with the Pyramids, allowing them to expand faster than any other Civ.

MIL and especially COM are traits that don't help the AI that much, so Iroquois and Aztecs are not that powerful in the hands of the AI than in the hands of a Human.
EXP is a good AI trait, but the Chasqui is sooo bad...
SEA is clearly the least benefitial trait for the AI (no Suicide Runs, and Curraghs are an absolte rarity below Sid).

Excellent points Doc ! But I've found the Iroquois played well early
by the AIs and usually have huge empires , but easily defeated by a
human player . The AIs seem to play Arabs, French, and Neth
pretty well, and in my current emperor game the Indians are a MONSTER
that I have yet to deal with .

The Celts were the 1st civ I played when I got Conquest and moved up in
difficulties . I DID tend to lean too heavily on the GS though, and every
so often would get Zeus too for an UNBEATABLE combination of Ancient Cav
and Gallic Swords

 

[microbe]

Aggressive AIs also tend to do well, such as Germany, if they have a good start.

 

[Tomoyo]

No one has mentioned X-man. He seemed to be the classic monster AI, once he hit the indutrial age.

 

[sourboy]

Play defense and build up. Then later in the game, when a well-off Empire is at war with them, ally another Civ to enter with you. Celts will fall enough to at least reduce them to normal in size - which is fine, considering they already had their UU & GA.

Keep in mind that Civ is like an ocean, the tides can shift heavily back & forth. Just don't let any tide get too big, unless it's your own. It will come around for you against the Celts though. In fact, this sounds like a good learning tool for you.

 

[Theoden]

The AIs seem to play Arabs, French, and Neth
pretty well, and in my current emperor game the Indians are a MONSTER
that I have yet to deal with

The Indians is always growing so huge in my games when they can get by it. Must be something with their build preferences

I can understand you mention Arabs and Dutch as good AI civs but French I have yet to see them as more than in the absolute lowest ranks not even to speak about winning a war or surviving the hole game. The AI seems to french worse than any other civ IMHO

Theoden

 

[rbis4rbb]

The Indians is always growing so huge in my games when they can get by it. Must be something with their build preferences

I can understand you mention Arabs and Dutch as good AI civs but French I have yet to see them as more than in the absolute lowest ranks not even to speak about winning a war or surviving the hole game. The AI seems to french worse than any other civ IMHO

Theoden

Actually, I think they play Carthage and Korea poorly. And, yes, the AI plays Sumerians best.

 

[Longasc]

The French have a very low aggression rating - as low as India, check it in the editor.

They tend to do well in my games so far!!!

But their peacefulness can be a detriment, too, they are sitting ducks waiting for invasion.

Germany, on the other hand, is highly aggressive: do or die - I see them always nearly extinct early on or they survive and become a major power later on.

In my latest games, they became really strong, usually they bite the dust early.


Anyways:

Agricultural Civs are inherently more powerful due to the things mentioned. They expand and grow faster, and if you have culturally linked starting positions on, you get a lot of the mostly agricultural american civs... having them as neighbours can be really awful.

 

[dgfred]

The Indians is always growing so huge in my games when they can get by it. Must be something with their build preferences

I can understand you mention Arabs and Dutch as good AI civs but French I have yet to see them as more than in the absolute lowest ranks not even to speak about winning a war or surviving the hole game. The AI seems to french worse than any other civ IMHO

Theoden

It may be related to India's GA since it comes at a great time and the War
Elephants are terrible opponents in battle. In games where I smack them
hard early, they don't do well--- but in this game I spoke of by the time I
could get enough forces to challenge them across the pangea, the smell
of elephant dung was HEAVY in the wind . I think it is the same with
France, if you leave them alone early they will usually become huge. An early
attack will usually do them in .

 

[morchuflex]

SEA is clearly the least benefitial trait for the AI (no Suicide Runs, and Curraghs are an absolte rarity below Sid)

Well, on this screenie I am playing Scandinavia on Emperor level, and off the East coast you can see 8 (eight) Iroquois curraghs!

BTW, what's the exact combat values of these ships? They're supposed to have zero attack, but they often successfully attack my galleys...

 

[DBear]

IIRC, curraghs can't attack, but they can defend.

 

[Teabeard]

IIRC, curraghs can't attack, but they can defend.

They can attack.

 

[punkbass2000]

Well, on this screenie I am playing Scandinavia on Emperor level, and off the East coast you can see 8 (eight) Iroquois curraghs!

That's a fairly specific, special scenario there, though. It looks like you've probably got a 80% water arch. start with a really narrow continent, where nearly every city os coastal, especially for the AI. That's gonna tend to lead to a lot of boats in general.

 

[morchuflex]

It looks like you've probably got a 80% water arch. start with a really narrow continent, where nearly every city os coastal, especially for the AI. That's gonna tend to lead to a lot of boats in general.

You're right. That's the only setting I like.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

It's not so much the map settings, most likely the Iros ran out of anything else to build. Looks like the settled their landmass already, and I don't think you helped them with techs.

 

[morchuflex]

It's not so much the map settings, most likely the Iros ran out of anything else to build. Looks like the settled their landmass already, and I don't think you helped them with techs.

Absolutely right. Why would I?