Upsetting the Juggernaut

[Boojumhunter]

Greetings Folks,

I haven't read everything on this site... no time for that, gotta make a living sometime... but I have seen one issue raised repeatedly.

The Juggernaut problem: Once a civ gets rolling it's almost impossible for them to lose their top position.

Here's a solution that I suspect has been offered before.

Strategic Resource Modification. Assume for the moment that I need 'X' to build a certain type of unit. If I lose access to 'X' I naturally lose the ability to make more of that unit BUT existing units continue to function.

What if: when I lose access to ST 'X' ALL units depending on 'X' lose the ability to move after one turn without supply. And lose one hit point (to a minimum of 1) each turn afterwards.

A huge civ could be severely crippled by cutting off a 'strategic' resource and if they could be kept away from that resource for a few (5-6 turns) then the whole game would swivel to a secondary/tertiary civ.

This forces several things... real protection of resources, mixed forces so you're not 100% dependent upon 'oil', 'iron'... etc., increased danger to granting access to your territory, back stabbing would regain it's rightful place of honour on the playing field. etc. etc.

This might even be something modable... check against available SR, check against existing units... adjust accordingly.

 

[Legionary37]

That's a pretty good, idea, although we already have a thread about this.

 

[apatheist]

Strategic Resource Modification. Assume for the moment that I need 'X' to build a certain type of unit. If I lose access to 'X' I naturally lose the ability to make more of that unit BUT existing units continue to function.

What if: when I lose access to ST 'X' ALL units depending on 'X' lose the ability to move after one turn without supply. And lose one hit point (to a minimum of 1) each turn afterwards.

A huge civ could be severely crippled by cutting off a 'strategic' resource and if they could be kept away from that resource for a few (5-6 turns) then the whole game would swivel to a secondary/tertiary civ.

Any civ could be severely crippled this way. In fact, it would be harder to cripple a large civ that way because they have the troops to defend themselves. They'll have lots of land, which means they're more likely to have the resource themselves. Finally, they'll have more money and troops, which means they'll be able to trade/bully for it more effectively. This would be a tactic of the strong against the weak, not the other way around.

 

[Boojumhunter]

Any civ could be severely crippled this way. In fact, it would be harder to cripple a large civ that way because they have the troops to defend themselves.

Hmm... and if those troops can't move to the resource to regain it? That's the point... A small civ could focus on a single 'weak point'... imagine a large civ with 200+ tanks/Modern Armor... ALL stopped in their tracks. reducing in strength every turn they don't have the resource.

Could it be used against a weaker Civ? of course it could. BUT a large civ usually upgrades all it's units and that would be weak point which a smaller civ could attack.

Anyway... it's just a thought, not an argument. I've never modded a game before, but this is something I think I'll try. Only problem is, I don't believe the implications would be a part of the AI programming and THAT would be difficult to mod in.

Cheers

 

[apatheist]

Hmm... and if those troops can't move to the resource to regain it? That's the point... A small civ could focus on a single 'weak point'... imagine a large civ with 200+ tanks/Modern Armor... ALL stopped in their tracks. reducing in strength every turn they don't have the resource.

If the resource is close to that civ's borders and if it's close to your borders and if it's not guarded and if you can hang onto it once you've gotten it. All those ifs are much harder to satisfy if you're a small civ going up against a big one compared to a big one going after a small one. You're assuming that the small civ can reach the resource in the first place. Not only that, but you're assuming that the large civ is dumb enough not to defend the oil patch that is 3 tiles away from the border.

Could it be used against a weaker Civ? of course it could. BUT a large civ usually upgrades all it's units and that would be weak point which a smaller civ could attack.

You could argue the opposite; a large civ might be less likely to upgrade all its units because it has so many more of them so it costs so much more, whereas the small civ only has 5 spearmen.

I do agree with the fundamental premise, but it's not a way to temper the power of large civs. You should need a resource for keeping a unit alive as well as building it. I'd change it a little, though. There would be a construction requirement and a maintenance requirement. Sometimes you'd have both, sometimes just one, sometimes neither. Sometimes the requirements would be the same, sometimes not. For instance, an Armor unit should require Iron to be built and Oil to keep running. If you lose your Iron after the Armor has been constructed; you're ok, but if you lose your Oil, it stops. If you don't have Oil while it's being built, you can still build it, but you won't be able to do anything with it. A Pikeman, on the other hand, requires Iron to build, but once it's built, you don't need it anymore (you've already constructed your pikes). A Longbowman can be built without any resources (bows don't need them), but requires Iron to keep it going (arrowheads).