I've found that though the colloseum improvement is supposedly cheaper than a cathedral, it takes longer time to build. It is far lousier than a cathedral with reduced culture points & happy faces but it is more expensive. Why is this so? Also, does anyone know of any lousy improvement or wonder (big/small)?
Useless Improvements
- Thread starter qanda
- Start date
A Colosseum costs 120 shields, a Cathedral costs 160 shields.
I would guess you were playing a religious civ, therefore the cathedral only cost you 80 shields. When playing a religious civ cathedrals are a better build. There are times that I will still build both though. (Only have 2 or 3 luxs and cities are getting to size 12.)
I would guess you were playing a religious civ, therefore the cathedral only cost you 80 shields. When playing a religious civ cathedrals are a better build. There are times that I will still build both though. (Only have 2 or 3 luxs and cities are getting to size 12.)
I think that might be because you're playing as a religous civ, which would make Cathedrals cheaper. And although a Colloseum is worse, you'll probably eventually need to build both to take care of all your unhappy citizens, especially on higher difficulty levels. And a reason why you might want a Colloseum instead of a Cathedral is because I think Cathedrals require two mantainence, while a Colloseum requires one.
Finvola
Where's my pie?
I usually end up building both also.
cracker
Gil Favor's Sidekick
qanda,
You need to look closely at what civs you are playing because the cost of some improvements is cut in half for civs like religious, scientific, and military. You can work out the permutations now that you know to look.
I think that some improvements are totally worthless in certain situations and learning to assess these is what graduates you from a Newbie up to a Novice or a Journeyman.
Worthless might better be stated as "a negative asset" since in many case the maintenance cost for an improvement may exceed any added value and will actual reduce the power of your civ.
The best example of "a negative asset" improvement is the courthouse depending on the distance radius that this improve is from your capital city. Less that 4 squares away and there is not enough benefit to pay for the maintenance costs so you lose money. (If you looked at many newbie games you would find courthouses in the capitals and FP cities just sucking away at the treasury). If your city is more than 12 to 15 squares away from the capital city then the courthouse again may not be of any value. There is a narrow range where it has benefit.
I also love people that build SAM batteries in their core cities even though the cities cannot possibly be reached by any attacking aircraft.
For me, I try to save the colleseum to use as a pocket to prebuild units or other improvements, I usually complete 8 or 10 Hospitals, Banks, and Factories in just 1 or 2 turns after the tech for them is available just by using the colleseum to bootstrap up. If you look at my games a turn or two before cavalry, infantry, battleships, and/or tanks you will see almost every city saving up shields in the colesuem to switch over to these valuable items on the quick time.
You need to look closely at what civs you are playing because the cost of some improvements is cut in half for civs like religious, scientific, and military. You can work out the permutations now that you know to look.
I think that some improvements are totally worthless in certain situations and learning to assess these is what graduates you from a Newbie up to a Novice or a Journeyman.
Worthless might better be stated as "a negative asset" since in many case the maintenance cost for an improvement may exceed any added value and will actual reduce the power of your civ.
The best example of "a negative asset" improvement is the courthouse depending on the distance radius that this improve is from your capital city. Less that 4 squares away and there is not enough benefit to pay for the maintenance costs so you lose money. (If you looked at many newbie games you would find courthouses in the capitals and FP cities just sucking away at the treasury). If your city is more than 12 to 15 squares away from the capital city then the courthouse again may not be of any value. There is a narrow range where it has benefit.
I also love people that build SAM batteries in their core cities even though the cities cannot possibly be reached by any attacking aircraft.
For me, I try to save the colleseum to use as a pocket to prebuild units or other improvements, I usually complete 8 or 10 Hospitals, Banks, and Factories in just 1 or 2 turns after the tech for them is available just by using the colleseum to bootstrap up. If you look at my games a turn or two before cavalry, infantry, battleships, and/or tanks you will see almost every city saving up shields in the colesuem to switch over to these valuable items on the quick time.
An example similar to cracker's courthouse example is building marketplaces or banks when your city is only producing 0, 1, or 2 gold per turn, and the city will probably never produce more. (This will usually only happen in outer unproductive cities, or if you have high science or luxury rates.) Since they require mantainence, they won't give you any more money. BTW, does anyone know exactly how much courthouses help with corruption?
Bamspeedy
CheeseBob
Alexman wrote an article in the strategy articles forum titled "Do you think you understand corruption?". A definite must read for anyone with any questions about corruption.
Marketplaces still add happy people, it would be worthless to build in a size 2 massively corrupt town, though. Marketplaces and Banks are maintanence free if you get the Smith's Trading Co. Great Wonder. Whether or not they are worth spending the shields to build them usually depends on if you are milking the game or not.
If you have alot of cities, even the capital will lose 1 or 2 gold/turn. The courthouses usually recovers 1, but since the maintence is 1 gold/turn, you break even. So it was just a waste of shields, unless you also recover 1 shield.
Another example is building an aqueduct when the city just doesn't have the food to let the city grow BEYOND size 6. Cities in mountains, tundra, desert are examples. I've seen people who have cities stuck at size 2 in the middle of a jungle and they are building granaries. They should be building a worker to clear the jungle, that will get the city growing faster than a granery. Building a wall when the city is at size 5 or 6 and will get to size 7 shortly....
But a courthouse in a capital city is very good sometime.
1.- it happen to me that i got 20 shield production in my capital, but 1 was lost to waste so i got only 19 net, so i waste a turn on each multiple of 20 cost units or building. ex: a unit cost 80 shield so it need 5 turn at 19 shield per turn but only 4 at 20, so it much better to pay 1 gold per turn for courthouse maintenance then to pay to rush built. If you built a great wonder in medievak era then 1 more shiled per turn worth a lot more than 1 gold per turn, especialy when you work on copernicus and newton college.
2.- courthouse while in communist is a must in every city.
1.- it happen to me that i got 20 shield production in my capital, but 1 was lost to waste so i got only 19 net, so i waste a turn on each multiple of 20 cost units or building. ex: a unit cost 80 shield so it need 5 turn at 19 shield per turn but only 4 at 20, so it much better to pay 1 gold per turn for courthouse maintenance then to pay to rush built. If you built a great wonder in medievak era then 1 more shiled per turn worth a lot more than 1 gold per turn, especialy when you work on copernicus and newton college.
2.- courthouse while in communist is a must in every city.
Jon Shafer
Civilization 5 Designer
On higher difficulties without many luxuries, having both a Cathedral and a Colusseum is very important. Qanda, let me guess, you've never played through a game on diety, have you? 
Bamspeedy
CheeseBob
What does that have to do with anything? The difference of the number of people that are born content from Regent to Deity is only 1. There's a bigger difference in # of content people just by which government you choose.
Jon Shafer
Civilization 5 Designer
There are a lot more things that affect that than just the # born content between the different difficulty levels.
Bamspeedy
CheeseBob
I know that, but Qandra was referring to the reason to build a colleseum. What's the purpose of building a colleseum other than to make some people content. You made it seem like a colleseum is a necessity because you have fewer content people born on the higher levels.
I guess I was just trying to say, you should have said "A colleseum's value is more important on the higher levels" than saying "Deity". You made it sound like anyone who doesn't play deity level is a loser.
I guess I was just trying to say, you should have said "A colleseum's value is more important on the higher levels" than saying "Deity". You made it sound like anyone who doesn't play deity level is a loser.
chiefpaco
Emperor
Solar Plant. Not useless, but... These buildings are very expensive at 320 shields. If I don't have the hoover dam, I build coals and hydros. At 2 pollution per, the coal plant is not that damaging, only costs 240 shields to build, improves the production by the same amount, and comes much sooner than the solar, meaning I reap the benefits for much longer.
I'd lump in a lot of modern buildings into a near useless category since they don't affect much at this point in the game.
Barracks are also useless in cities that are neither used to heal nor produce units.
I'd lump in a lot of modern buildings into a near useless category since they don't affect much at this point in the game.
Barracks are also useless in cities that are neither used to heal nor produce units.
Mephisto
perma-banned
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2002
- Messages
- 635
i think it depends on the type of win you want. in my latest deity game (standard map), i only build barracks in my core cities, granaries in two of them, and temples in all conquered cities. later i conquered pyramid and sun tzu, so i even sell all the barracks and granaries i've built.
i guess it helps if you get lots of luxuaries and have small cities. i usually build marketplace, but in my last game, even marketplace was not necessary. but i think if you have cities that are size 13 or bigger, then it would be nice to build both cathedral and colloseum.
i guess it helps if you get lots of luxuaries and have small cities. i usually build marketplace, but in my last game, even marketplace was not necessary. but i think if you have cities that are size 13 or bigger, then it would be nice to build both cathedral and colloseum.
Mad Bomber
Commander
I like to build Market places in worthless (unproductive) cities just to increase happiness. Courthouses don't reduce corruption much even in cities from 10-20 tiles away, so they are next to worthless. SAMS in your core cities is a must if the AI's have nukes. SDI will only work in cities with a SAM site. I never build coal plants ( I usually build Hoover) & Harbors are not needed in every city that is on the coast.
cracker
Gil Favor's Sidekick
I have never heard of this, what is your source for this knowledge.
(Note, that I have virtually no experience with nukes or SDI because my games are always over long before those techs are researched.)
dannyevilcat
DESTROYER OF FURNITURE
Cracker is right about the SDI. All you need is the 5 SAM sites required to build it, then it covers all your cities.
Mad Bomber
Commander
I know that it takes 5 SAM sites to build it, but I thought I read that the city being attacked had to have a site to be protected, although I could be wrong. I'll do some checking and post if I am wrong
cracker
Gil Favor's Sidekick
Mad Bomber,
I think this is just another example of the "open mouth insert foot" problem that is so prevalent in the Tassadar threads. The problem in these cases in not bad people, but the habit of spreading mistaken interpretations as facts.
Look back at you post and you will see that you used words like "must" and "SDI will only work..." as if you knew what you were doing and I can't be sure this was the case in this example.
I think we should just try and be more sensitive to how other people might be effected by the false things you posted, then you might go back and edit the post to add a colored discalimer to fix the error of clarify what you really meant. I applaud you for being willing to try and confirm the facts.
This is the only problem I have had with Tassadar's posts as well. 3/4ths of them have deliberately misleading and false information in them. Say what you wish, you have a right to your opinion, but state your guesses and your opinions as those type of things instead of pretending that they may be the gospel or a page out of the Koran carved in stone.
I think this is just another example of the "open mouth insert foot" problem that is so prevalent in the Tassadar threads. The problem in these cases in not bad people, but the habit of spreading mistaken interpretations as facts.
Look back at you post and you will see that you used words like "must" and "SDI will only work..." as if you knew what you were doing and I can't be sure this was the case in this example.
I think we should just try and be more sensitive to how other people might be effected by the false things you posted, then you might go back and edit the post to add a colored discalimer to fix the error of clarify what you really meant. I applaud you for being willing to try and confirm the facts.
This is the only problem I have had with Tassadar's posts as well. 3/4ths of them have deliberately misleading and false information in them. Say what you wish, you have a right to your opinion, but state your guesses and your opinions as those type of things instead of pretending that they may be the gospel or a page out of the Koran carved in stone.
Similar threads
