UUs in BNW

[poopfeast420]

Morocco, Poland and Shoshone all have cavalry UUs. Considering cavalry can't siege and get countered by spear/pike units it seems kind of a waste to let them take the UU slot. They are amazing at defense but there's no reason to make more than 1 or 2 if you're playing an offensive civilization. It seems to really limit the capabilities of each civilization for a domination victory. Especially Poland, which has their UU and their UB both be about cavalry. Morocco and Poland really shouldn't just be about getting a cultural victory.

Indonesia's UU is also seems like a gimmick, and Venice's galleass is useless. No problem with the other 4 civs, and pathfinders are one of the best units introduced.

 

[VainoValkea]

You can wage war with units other than the UUs. They are certainly not limitations of any kind.

Venice's galleass, useless? What on earth?

 

[Arachnofiend]

Cavalry are actually pretty grand at taking cities, you just shouldn't be using them to do damage to them. Cavs provide line of sight for your siege weapons without having to sit in range of the city and can zip into a low health city and take it without having to spend a turn in front of it unlike Infantry units. They can also leave a city after taking it for those instances when the AI still has a lot of units around and will probably retake the city next turn.

 

[Falconiano]

I agree that UUs in general are such a minor factor as they are outdated too fast.
I'd like to see some longer-lasting effect, like Rome would have morale promotion, all Celt melees generate faith etc.
Else once the UUs are outdated everyone is the same basically.

 

[VainoValkea]

Not to mention that cavalry can pillage twice per turn, to heal a whopping 50hp total.

 

[KillingMeSoftly]

I actually find Byzantine's UUs to be the most useless. Not that they aren't effective~ simply my priorities are elsewhere when playing the Byzantines and their UUs come so early I never end up building them to any effect.

 

[SirPainsalot]

I actually find Byzantine's UUs to be the most useless. Not that they aren't effective~ simply my priorities are elsewhere when playing the Byzantines and their UUs come so early I never end up building them to any effect.

You're missing out then. The Dromon is amazing, one of the best defenders and maybe attackers you'll find in case of war. Nothing can touch it early game.

 

[Byzantine Bomb]

The Berber Cavalry is an excellent defender. If in home territory AND in the desert, it can defeat units more advanced than it. If it's on a kasbah or citadel, pshhh. You ain't movin' that beast.
A great guerilla fighter but also strong on the offense. Typically I'll send some in an enemy's desert during a war, essentially using the backdoor to nab some cities or pillage.

 

[Petiscator]

Dude, Winged Hussars are great! Also, they are Lancers, not Cavalry. I know, seems worse, but this unit basically gives you a big reason to train some lancers. +3 , +1 , Shock I and Heavy Charge. Pretty solid. Add Barracks + Ducal Stable + Armory and you've got yourself some nasty units. They rule! Get a bunch of them and just rape the enemy's army with tons of flanking bonuses (you have 5 so this is quite viable). Love it a lot, might be my favorite UU... who knows.

Now, of all the UUs of this expansion, I think my greatest disappointment was the greatest galleass (yes this was a lame attempt at punning). If it can't take cities, why does it have a melee function? Ok, it is stronger... it also costs more. Meh.

Also, I didn't find the Pracinhas too good... they seem to come very late and, whilst having a nice promo, depending on the enemy's tech level, it can be quite frustrating. On my king game, I was facing Musketmen with my Pracinhas. It doesn't do a lot if you need >2000 for a golden age and each kill gives you 24 ...

 

[VainoValkea]

You're missing out then. The Dromon is amazing, one of the best defenders and maybe attackers you'll find in case of war. Nothing can touch it early game.

Same with Great Galleass, the "useless" UU if we were to believe the OP. It has a ranged attack strength of 20 - in other words, a cannon ages before cannons, with the added benefits of being untouchable by land melee units and far lower cost. And since Venice has a coastal start, they are guaranteed to be available for defending the city.

That's pretty fricken' useFUL, not -less if you ask me!

 

[KevinJK]

Unique buildings and improvements are more useful than unique units because their don't obsolesce. With the exceptions of Huns and Mongols (because their units are both too important to lose), every civilization should have a unique improvement or building given to it in place of one of its units, especially considering how not-at-all-useful many unique units are. As I cannot make improvements (requires making new art), I have been going through and giving buildings to civs that don't have one with mods I've made.

Venice's galleass, useless? What on earth?

Yes it is. It has an extra 2 strength and 3 ranged strength, and costs 10% more. That's almost no change at all. It isn't actually unique, so I didn't think twice when cutting it to give Venice a building.

Same with Great Galleass, the "useless" UU if we were to believe the OP. It has a ranged attack strength of 20 - in other words, a cannon ages before cannons, with the added benefits of being untouchable by land melee units and far lower cost. And since Venice has a coastal start, they are guaranteed to be available for defending the city.

That's pretty fricken' useFUL, not -less if you ask me!

A Galleass already does exactly that. A unique unit is supposed to actually be unique and do something different. Great Galleass is worthless because it's just a Galleass, something every civ already has. It's not that the unit is bad. It's just bad for a unique because it isn't unique. Galleasses are great units, so of course so is the Great Galleass. It's just that it worthlessly eats up a unique slot Venice can better spend on a building.

 

[VainoValkea]

Yes it is. It has an extra 2 strength and 3 ranged strength, and costs 10% more. That's almost no change at all. It isn't actually unique, so I didn't think twice when cutting it to give Venice a building.

It's a cannon equivalent that enemy land melee units can't attack, in the medieval era, and even capable of taking enemy cities. Again, how the heck is that useless?

 

[KevinJK]

It's a cannon equivalent that enemy land melee units can't attack, in the medieval era, and even capable of taking enemy cities. Again, how the heck is that useless?

Looks like I answered that in my post edit. Basically, when you only allow two uniques per civilization, you need to make sure they're both valuable enough to take up that unique slot. The Great Galleass is certainly a good unit, but only because the Galleass is a very good unit and it's basically the same thing. It isn't actually unique, though. It doesn't do anything different or special, so it's worthless as a unique and is just wasting a unique slot that Venice could fill with something else for more benefit.

Like this.


It's really a shame that so many civilizations have two unique units, because that isn't fair to them. I've been working on fixing this.

 

[cinattra]

Horse units are always useful no matter what type. You should always build it especially if you have open terrain. Lancers are best when grown from spearmen.

 

[Gucumatz]

Wait someone is arguing that Venice's UU is bad? I think that's a classic case of blame the player not, the game in this instance. Its quite the powerful situational UU. As range units are essential to anything, these galleass can withstand city bombardment much better, kill land units with ease, and better strength/range means they will be promoted much quicker to 2 attack/3 range units.

Not the best UU by any means but certainly not useless, completely laughable
========

And Cavalry tend to be more useful in more competitive games. Multiplayer they are essential as human brains are superior to AI. Also on higher levels with the constant unit spam, the ability to hit and retreat or get some flanking bonuses can tip wars on immortal/deity

 

[That Other Guy]

Looks like I answered that in my post edit. Basically, when you only allow two uniques per civilization, you need to make sure they're both valuable enough to take up that unique slot.

I don't think that's true at all. The combination of UA and uniques need to be weighed together. A bad UU is a way to balance a powerful UA (and vice versa). Requiring that every UU be awesome on its own results in a homogenization of the game.

 

[Talcove]

A Galleass already does exactly that. A unique unit is supposed to actually be unique and do something different. Great Galleass is worthless because it's just a Galleass, something every civ already has. It's not that the unit is bad. It's just bad for a unique because it isn't unique. Galleasses are great units, so of course so is the Great Galleass. It's just that it worthlessly eats up a unique slot Venice can better spend on a building.

Actually it is quite unique from a regular Galleass. A regular Galleass has 17 strength, and 2 range. The Great Galleass has 20 strength, 2 range, AND is allowed to melee attack. A, previously, range-attack only ship being given the ability to melee attack is quite unique, in fact I don't know of any other unit that can perform both a ranged and a melee attack.

The only downside is that this ability doesn't transfer to the Firgate and other upgrades.

 

[Petiscator]

Actually it is quite unique from a regular Galleass. A regular Galleass has 17 strength, and 2 range. The Great Galleass has 20 strength, 2 range, AND is allowed to melee attack. A, previously, range-attack only ship being given the ability to melee attack is quite unique, in fact I don't know of any other unit that can perform both a ranged and a melee attack.

The only downside is that this ability doesn't transfer to the Firgate and other upgrades.

Yeah, but why would you melee attack with it? To take cities? Except they can't... it seems... I googled it a few weeks ago and it looks like the Great Galleass can't really take cities. So I don't see the point of melee attacking here, unless I'm forgetting something?

 

[Gucumatz]

One shot kill of a great admiral if you run it over and workers too I believe with the high enough strength

 

[Thuellai]

People be hatin' on the Kris Swordsman.

Is it a little unreliable? Maybe. But they work out, by the numbers, something like 77% of the time (7 of their 9 promotions are positive, and of those, at least three are practically gamebreaking)

As Indonesia you're already trading a ton. Trade for a little iron, build a stock of Kris Swordsmen, test 'em on the local barbs. Gift unnecessary ones to CS for influence to get back your iron

The ability to have a unit that carries through the gunpowder line that's practically immortal, or acts like a Great General, or some of the other really powerful promotions, can swing a war pretty impressively (Especially Immortal, which makes up for one of the biggest problems melee units have, the fact that they'll take a lot of damage before they get in)