Vassal states pointless?

[phobos_mk1]

Is it just me, or are Vassal States completely pointless?

In every game I've played so far, it has been more beneficial to wipe out an opponent than accept capitulation. For a start, it becomes extremely difficult to win a conquest victory. Secondly, you get a diplomatic penalty with most other civs. Thirdly, the AI doesn't seem to take vassal status into account when declaring war and you'll often end up at war with your allies because they have declared war on your vassal.

Are there ways to work around these things? Are Vassal States *ever* useful?

Also, why can you only demand one thing in tribute from your vassal? I was expecting to be able to demand everything with "Time for your tribute. Refusal means WAR!", but it only works once. Is this by design or a bug?

 

[Cow]

Vassal states do not make it more difficult to get a conquest victory. Accepting a civilization's capitulation makes it count as if it were wiped out, at least with regards to a conquest victory. Kill or make everyone capitulate, and you've got a conquest victory. If anything it makes things even easier as you no longer have to kill everyone else down to the last man.

You get a diplomatic penalty because you accept as a vassal a civilization that another civ doesn't like. If they did like them, then you'd still get a penalty for declaring war on their friend.

You can demand more than once, it's just the "Time for your tribute." thing seems to only apply to resources. Not sure if this is a bug or not.

 

[General_Skip]

Ironic you bring this up. I've yet to be able to use the vassal state option. However, I've been burned hard with a vassal-state agreement that was entirely unexpected. In my first game on Warlords, I was at war with the Mongolian's and had all but dominated them. Out of the blue, the relatively powerful French (Louis XIV) whom sit to my northern boarder; which has went largely unprotected up and untill this point. Montezuma signs himself over as a vassal-state to the French and the French automatically declared war on me. It's worth noting our relations were good prior to this, I was totally shocked and suffered quite a bit for not expecting it.

The other instance I ran into is a current game where Alexander, the Japs and myself as Hannibal ganged up on Cyrus. The war was initiated by the Greek's and Alexander had prompted us into battle on his behalf. After 10-12 turns Cyrus turns himself over to Alexander and peace reigns throughout the lands.

I want a Vassal-State!

 

[phobos_mk1]

Vassal states do not make it more difficult to get a conquest victory. Accepting a civilization's capitulation makes it count as if it were wiped out, at least with regards to a conquest victory. Kill or make everyone capitulate, and you've got a conquest victory. If anything it makes things even easier as you no longer have to kill everyone else down to the last man.

Do you know that for certain? If so, that's great! In the Victory conditions for conquest, it includes my vassals as rivals. For example, if there are 10 civs left and 4 are vassals, it still lists '10 rivals' to be defeated. Obviously that's misleading if what you say is correct.

You get a diplomatic penalty because you accept as a vassal a civilization that another civ doesn't like. If they did like them, then you'd still get a penalty for declaring war on their friend.

But if you kill them, no penalty at all

You can demand more than once, it's just the "Time for your tribute." thing seems to only apply to resources. Not sure if this is a bug or not.

Yeah, it seems unrealistic. Vassals had no power at all - how dare they refuse to give me gold in tribute

 

[Cow]

The conquest thing is mentioned here. Haven't done so myself, I've only won with domination since Warlords came out.