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Vokarya's Workshop: Wonders

Discussion in 'Rise of Mankind: A New Dawn' started by Vokarya, Nov 3, 2013.

  1. Zeta Nexus

    Zeta Nexus Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2014
    Messages:
    2,476
    Location:
    In a constant brainstorm...
    Well, I always felt that Bazaar should upgrade to Market...
     
  2. RyoHazuki

    RyoHazuki Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2012
    Messages:
    96
    Location:
    Aragón
    Me too...
     
  3. nionios

    nionios Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2013
    Messages:
    385
    I notice that Radio Telescope (national wonder) becomes available with Radar tech and gives bonus production for Observatory which requires Astronomy.
    My personal opinion is that RT gives bonus for a building that is already aged because there's a big gap between Radar and Astronomy.
     
  4. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2011
    Messages:
    5,541
    It's meant as a minor bonus to help you set up additional cities in the late game. The primary benefits are the +30% science and +20% spaceship production.
     
  5. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2011
    Messages:
    5,541
    Here's something I want to throw out. Is the National Redoubt still valuable? I created it to fill out the Guerrilla Warfare tech, which was folded into Combined Arms in v1015. It came to my attention when I was looking at free promotions.

    There's nothing fatal about it, but there are a few different problems with it.
    • The Stealth I promotion contributes to the proliferation of free promotions on units. I counted 19 different possible sources of free promotions from buildings. Many of these sources have difficult requirements (UB, civic building, World Wonder) to fulfill, but National Redoubt is relatively easy to build, with only requiring a few Bunkers and a Peak.
    • The Industrial Era has a lot of National Wonders already. On a weighted average by number of techs, the Industrial Era should only have 11 National Wonders, not counting the resource-producers; it has 13.
    • The Redoubt was moved to Fascism tech when Guerrilla Warfare was removed, but that puts Fascism into the "greedy zone" with a trick count of over 6. It has the Single Party civic; the Interrogation Building and Revivalist Church; Permanent Alliances; the free Great General; and the Patrol I promotion. That is a trick count of 5.5 without the Redoubt.
    So I'm wondering what it would hurt if the Redoubt was removed, or if the promotion was removed. Is there something else we could do with it? Possibly merging it with Flak Tower?
     
  6. Urza1234

    Urza1234 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2012
    Messages:
    33
    -Yeah personally I think I would agree with at least taking the free Stealth 1 Promotion off of National Redoubt, for whatever thats worth.

    -In my opinion the Flak Towers and National Redoubts are different concepts. If I'm not mistaken the Flak Towers referenced by the ingame Nat. Wonder are the 8 towers constructed by Nazi Germany in 3 different cities to defend against Allied air raids and actually worked very well, whereas a National Redoubt is a final defensive seat of a besieged government that have sometimes been designated but have mostly not been built or used.
    Thus, if I had the goal of reducing the Nat. Wonders available in the Industrial Era I would actually either:
    A. Remove the Flak Tower and perhaps roll a small amount of its defensive bonus into the Military Airbase or
    B. Nerf the Flak tower down from -100% damage from Air units (thats a lot), and remove its National Wonder classification, its kind of an awkward thing imo to have one city per Civ be basically immune to air damage. Also either give the city its in increased maintenance or just increase the :hammers: cost of building them so that they would be built only in the cities that need them rather than all over, this might also be somewhat historically representative, because although 8 were built, many more were planned.

    -If one wanted to give National Redoubt a trick besides Stealth 1; I might recommend some kind of a happiness or war weariness buff, since most National Redoubts are never actually used, but our governments and politicians sure do seem happy to have them :groucho:.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017
  7. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2011
    Messages:
    5,541
    I don't want Flak Tower as an ordinary building. There's already enough air defense buildings: Bunker and Radar Station in the Industrial Era, then Anti-Missile Batteries at the tail end of the Modern, and then there are upgrades. Another anti-air building would be redundant.

    I'd actually like to take the air defense bonus off of Military Airbase/Aerospace Complex. Those buildings are already doing enough: they provide air unit experience, air unit production, air unit capacity, and airlift ability. The stacking of air defense can get out of hand. Bunker + Radar Station + Military Airbase + Anti-Missile Batteries would put a city at -80% air damage.

    I don't mind having some stacking, when it's appropriately separated and has different requirements: Bunker is the first and just requires Cement and Iron/Steel; Radar Station comes later and requires Power; Anti-Missile Batteries is an entire era later. But air defense on Military Airbase seems to me to be an unnecessary extra effect.
     
  8. Urza1234

    Urza1234 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2012
    Messages:
    33
    Your original premise of just giving some air defense to National Redoubt and getting rid of Flak Tower would make sense then, in my opinion :thumbsup:.

    I personally like the concept of giving some sort of happiness or war weariness bonus to National Redoubt. Though thats partly because it would conflict with the nearby Mt. Rushmore and that would provide an excuse to change Mt. Rushmore, a nat. wonder that I think is... weird. Thats probably just me though :dunno:
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017

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