War Chariot versus Immortal!

[IAM]

What's the best Chariot unique unit?

Chariot (standard for most civs)
4
2
30
10% withdrawl chance
100% attack versus axemen

War Chariot (Egyptian)
5
2
30
10% withdrawl chance
100% attack versus axemen
immune to first strike

Immortal (Persia)
4
2
30
10% withdrawl chance
100% attack versus axemen
+50% versus archery units
edit: thanks kossin: receives defensive bonuses.

I already know Immortals are a favorite with their anti-archery bonus. I voted for War Chariot. The extra strength is devastating to axemen and I don't do early rushes much so it's a better all around defensive unit. Rarely attacked by archers. I like to wait on offensive war until the good land is occupied and my opponent has built some wonders and developed some cities for me. Yep, I'm a greedy bast...

 

[kossin]

You forgot one detail:

Immortals receive terrain feature defenses, whereas War Chariots and regular Chariots don't.

Early on: Immortal (great for rushes and barb cities)
Later on: War Chariot (work better than Immortals behind Catapults and are so cheap compared to HAs)

 

[NihilZero]

Immortals are slightly superior, but to be honest it really doesn't matter that much. Both of them are total rapage, if you'll pardon the phrase.

Ordinary chariots are pretty great too.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

War chariots usually win, but if the immortals are on defensive terrain.

 

[GreatProfit]

On Prince and below, WC's are usually better offensively because not every AI gets early archers. On Monarch+ Immortals are usually better offensively, but only slightly. It's worth noting that CB I gets more oomph from WC's than Immortals because of the higher base . I haven't really exploited the Immortal's defensive bonuses, but I suppose it's a big plus when used appropriately.

 

[Infantry#14]

immortals are better early rushing units. the leaders cyrus and darius have good synergy with rushing, while hatty and ramsey not as much. Immortals have better odds vs archers and longbows, while war chariots have better odds vs others. Basically, pillage and fortify on top of ai's resources = win (maybe except deity).

 

[TheMeInTeam]

How is hatty not suited to a rush? If anything, she's MORE suited than darius based on traits.

 

[TCMIV]

I voted war chariot because usually when my rush gets held up by anything, it's a spear, not an archer (barring pro archers on hills). War chariots have that extra strength against spears, which helps overcome that barrier.

 

[mirthadir]

War chariot all the way. They might be slightly less useful against archers, but even a single spear can make them much more cost effective; AI sword spam, even more tilts to chariots. Additionally warchariots don't go out of style until sometime around Arty. Highly promoted WCs vs redlined muskets/rifles/grenadiers is a much better option than the same vs immortals.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Immortals have better odds vs archers and longbows,

Do they?

A quick world builder test: Fortified archer in a hill city ( 125% defense ) against the unique chariot:

WarChariot ( 5 vs 6.75 ): 21.3%
Immortal ( 4 vs 5.25 ): 17.8%

Anybody want to do the math by hand to check the combat odds calculator?

Experimenting a bit further, it appears that Immortals see a jump point somewhere between 80% and 85% - from 85% defense and up, the calculator reports that immortals are close to, but behind, war chariots.

 

[Pohjalainen]

Even though it seems that War Chariot is somewhat better I prefer Immortal because of its defence bonuses. And Immortals have a bit of the same cool value as Samurais

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Do they?

A quick world builder test: Fortified archer in a hill city ( 125% defense ) against the unique chariot:

WarChariot ( 5 vs 6.75 ): 21.3%
Immortal ( 4 vs 5.25 ): 17.8%

Anybody want to do the math by hand to check the combat odds calculator?

Experimenting a bit further, it appears that Immortals see a jump point somewhere between 80% and 85% - from 85% defense and up, the calculator reports that immortals are close to, but behind, war chariots.

The strength values look correct, only thing to add here is that war chariots block first strikes (all archers have at least one), while immortals do not unless at flank II (not recommended). Base str means a lot in this game after all.

 

[KingMorgan]

The immortal is best because it's pictured as a horse rather than a chariot, far more advanced ans scary looking to the enemy.

 

[Lone Wolf]

The immortal is best because it's pictured as a horse rather than a chariot, far more advanced ans scary looking to the enemy.

We missed Attacko.

 

[IAM]

The immortal is best because it's pictured as a horse rather than a chariot, far more advanced ans scary looking to the enemy.

That's silly logic and this is a serious discussion! The War chariot graphic has four horses. Clearly better.

 

[bigwinw]

I say WC b/c 5 is 25% more than 4 anyway and you get the first strike immune. So against archers the WC is still +25% instead of +50% but you still get the immune to first strikes.

 

[Shurdus]

The immortal is best because it's pictured as a horse rather than a chariot, far more advanced ans scary looking to the enemy.

This.

I all earnest, I think both are a top UU and both are very usable. It is hardly relevant which one is better since you can make either one, and never both. It is not a matter of swords or axes for attacking a city. You cannot pick either one to spam, you just spam the UU you have and you can feel content to have either one as a solid UU. Both are viable to use in rushes, so you can't go wrong there.

EVen if either one is slightly better than the other in certain conditions, I would consider this to be a peripheral concern. Considering all this, I vote for the Immortal because not only does the name have a cool ring to it, it is also one of the coolest looking UU's.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

So against archers the WC is still +25% instead of +50%

Only on defense (?!), in which case you are overlooking an important advantage for Immortals. On the attack, it's 25% in the numerator vs 50% in the denominator.

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

Alright so WC are 5.5 strength with C1 against everything, while IM are 4.4 strength with C1 against everything while they are 6.6 versus Archers but are not immune to first strikes like WC. While it is a higher strength in an early rush versus Archers it does get killed by the RNG due to first strikes, so I would rather have a HA.

 

[raxid]

Alright so WC are 5.5 strength with C1 against everything, while IM are 4.4 strength with C1 against everything while they are 6.6 versus Archers but are not immune to first strikes like WC. While it is a higher strength in an early rush versus Archers it does get killed by the RNG due to first strikes, so I would rather have a HA.

Not how combat is computed when the chariot is attacking, which is the important case.