War!!!

[Joe Harker]

We are at war with Napppy pants folks so post your ideas here!!!

I will get back later hopefully

 

[grant2004]

I'm very surprised by their initial attack it wasn't nearly as forceful as I would have expected. The axeman they have near NOTA will likely do some pillaging, but he'll be dispatched easily, after that we need to start pushing forwards. Lyons will be easy to assault, the forested hill outside of that city is the ideal attacking location, no counterattack would dislodge an axeman from that spot.

 

[Hyronymus]

I vouch for attacking Rheims. We have 3 chariots in Coppertown and 1 Axemen on the Copper 1W of Coppertown. The garrison in Rheims is weak compared to our force.

 

[robboo]

OK my city stand ready to devote all of our production to units. I have viewed the save but what units should we build...

"never start a fight but always finish it."

 

[Falcon02]

Taken from the Office of the Warlord Thread

The French have Declared War on Yasutan!!

The French sent a Galley filled with 2 Axemen and landed them on our Silver mine. A Chariot bravely defended that tile from 1 axeman, however he succumbed to the second, leaving the axeman at 4.2/5 strength.

We've got 3 main concerns here now.

1. Destroying the Axeman in our Borders and ensuring no more resources get pillaged
   
   The Silver mine is lost, I have no doubt the Axeman will pillage it, and move on. The important part is making sure our Iron is well defended, without that Iron we lose military production ability. However, we'll still have our Copper, so all we'd really lose is our Swordsmen, and at this point while they have a role to play I view it as minor right now.​
2. Making sure that the French does not call in allies in this War, or at least preparing for the possibility.
   
   It probably won't happen, but I can't help but think about the old Domino War of Civ 3 DG1. Ever civilization that was on the continent was at war with us because Babylon declared war on us, and called in allies, who called in allies and so on. It's interesting to note, both Caesar and Bismark are Cautious with us, however Bismark is pleased with Napoleon, and Caesar is Cautious towards Napoleon. However, this is very unlikely, and even if it does occur we've got a good forest buffer. So I lean towards the second, just trying to keep in mind this may end up turning into a 2-front war... however I doubt it.​
3. Taking Vengeance on France and Destroying them!
   
   After #1 this is our priority. First we need to make sure all our units which are still waiting on promotions get promotions. I think our Axemen should get Shock for +25% vs. Melee, for a total of 75% bonus vs. Melee. We could also try mixing the Axemen promotions between Shock and Cover or City Raider, but I don't think that's necessary at this point. I think full Shock will be more valuable, since it doesn't look like Napoleon can produce mounted units, and Archers should be easy to take down. Chariots I'm more split on right now, either Combat I for increased strength, or Flanking I to allow for higher odds for hit and run battles, or more likely some mixture there of. We also still have a Archer in EA that needs to get it's City Garrison Promotion.
   
   As for production I think we should focus on Axemen, with some Swordsmen and Keshiks. As stated I don't think Napoleon can produce mounted units so Spearmen would be pointless. The vast majority of their units are either Melee or Archery types, and given the Archers are still... Archers with only 3 strength, Axemen should have little problems with them. However even so, that's where the Swordsmen come in with their higher base Strength and City Raider bonus. Also Keshiks will allow for quick assaults, quick reinforcements and general support for the other units, biggest weakness is Napoleon does have Spearmen who have good odds vs. our Keshiks.​

In Summary for Elders...

Production Preference
50% Axemen
25% Swordsmen
25% Keshiks

Also, on another note, we can also move to research Machinery, which will take ~13 turns. This would give us...
Crossbowmen - 6 str, 1 move, 1 First Strike, +50% Melee
Macemen - 8 str, 1 move, +50% Melee

Of course this would delay our other research goals, and probably is not necessary, but something to consider.

 

[Hyronymus]

I personally would consider Swordsman with Shock 1 promotion. That gives a unit with a higher attack value that can resist Axemen and has a good City Attack value. Not to mention we can give our Swordsman Combat 1 too.

One thing that came to mind is that we need to decide what we want to do with France. Just raze some cities or eradicate them? In the latter case we do need catapults too, Orleans seems to have city walls.

 

[Falcon02]

I personally would consider Swordsman with Shock 1 promotion. That gives a unit with a higher attack value that can resist Axemen and has a good City Attack value. Not to mention we can give our Swordsman Combat 1 too.

One thing that came to mind is that we need to decide what we want to do with France. Just raze some cities or eradicate them? In the latter case we do need catapults too, Orleans seems to have city walls.

I agree with Shock for our Swordsmen, maybe a few with City Raider though to enhance their city attack. On another note, Combat 1 is required for Shock, and being a Militaristic Civ, Melee and Gunpowder units get Combat 1 automatically.

On what to do with France, I lean towards the latter total destruction, though I'll probably post a poll later to get a feel of people's opinions. On Catapults, it will take ~7 turns to research Construction to build Catapults.

 

[Conroe]

The important part is making sure our Iron is well defended, without that Iron we lose military production ability. However, we'll still have our Copper, so all we'd really lose is our Swordsmen,

Protect the ponies! Keshiks will roll over anything but spears. Train enough Keshiks and the spears won't even stop you. Swap to slavery and start out those Keshiks! Those that can't be whipped get chopped.

 

[Falcon02]

I agree with protecting our Horses, but right now they are under less immediate threat. However, Napoleon could use the same tactics he used for the Silver mine against our Horses, since the Horses are on the coast.

As for Keshiks...

Spearmen have a strength of 8 against mounted units (4 Str, and +100% vs. Mounted), Keshiks have 6 base strength. Also since right now we see 2 spearmen, both with Combat I their relative strength is closer to 9 then 8.

On top of that Keshiks have NO defensive bonuses, should the enemy launch a counter attack on one of our stacks, particularly with spearmen, Axes would have a much easier time.

In general Axes vs. Spearmen is closer to 7.5 vs. 4, respectively, which is well within our favor.

Now this doesn't take into consideration 1 First strike... And to be honest I'm not sure how much that would tip the odds in our favor, but I can't imagine it would be enough.

I'd also would like to avoid the "Ant tactics" type philosophy of training enough units that after 5 units die, the 6th one has victory. Why train 20 Keshiks when you can train 10 Axemen and be just as effective?

The primary advantage Keshiks have is against Catapults, and general Mobility. And don't get me wrong, they do have a place in this war, particularly against Axemen. However, throwing waves of all Keshiks at the Spearmen they have wouldn't work out too well.

On Slavery, I avoid slavery in my games, however, I will leave production strategies to the Elders and the citizens to decide in general, as I tend not to use whipping or chopping in any of my games.

 

[Conroe]

The primary advantage Keshiks have is against Catapults, and general Mobility. And don't get me wrong, they do have a place in this war, particularly against Axemen. However, throwing waves of all Keshiks at the Spearmen they have wouldn't work out too well.

Your argument presumes that France has a lot of Spearmen. In reality they probably don't have as many as you presume. I would be quite surprised to find out that they had more Spearmen than Axemen. My guess is that France will have 1 Spearman in each city plus another one sitting on the copper mine. Other than that you should be looking at Archers and Axemen.

When a healthy Keshik attacks a healthy Spearman, the Keshik will die. Period. But your second Keshik will kill that Spearman. At this point, that "general mobility" that you mentioned will allow you to overrun your opponent before he gets a chance to field many more spears.

Keshiks, when used properly, are easily the most powerful UU in the early game. Not so much because of their strength, but because of their speed. Because France has been allowed to develop its metals, there will be some loses. A few Keshiks are going to have to suicide against those spears. But remember, its not the odds of winning a battle that counts; its the odds of winning the war. And Keshiks will win wars a lot faster than Swordsmen!

 

[Chieftess]

Look for some units I upgraded to bonus vs. melee (should be near the center of the civ, if they weren't moved...). I was anticipating war when Daveshack mentioned France's power meter spiking. (Fortunately, one of the cities ran out of build queues)

 

[ordinaryguy]

Specialise units

Axemen - shock

Swordsmen - city raider

Archers - city garrison

Chariots/Keshiks - one sentry unit (requires first withdrawal promotion) for surveillance, the others combat, maybe shock

Spearmen - formation after combat 2

Have several stacks for axemen, swordsmen, keshiks and spearmen. We'll roll over France. The SOD is unstoppable before capatults.

Don't forget to guard copper, iron and horses with at least an axeman each.

 

[fed1943]

The threated places:
a) Coopertown and its bronze are under threat from Rheims (1 spear,1 archer)
and more 1 archer to the south;
b)Riversight from Lyons (1 spear,1 archer);
c)NotA and its iron also from Lyons and 1 axe on silver/hills.
Two relevant points to be noted: enemy axe can attack NttA in 2 turns and
only a warrior there. Enemy is and will be absolute owner of the seas.

Immediate tactics:
Enemy sea domain, interior lines and lack of our military roads,taken together,
makes a static defense just a suicide.
We must attack,ASAP.
As our Warlord wisely said that axe on silver shall be our first target; then, other units on open as they present themselves.
Then, Rheims and Lyons must be seized. IMO we have not the needed strengh
to keep them, at least now; clearly Rheims must be razed; Lyons maybe.

Units:
Unhappily our Warlord cannot fight with units our cities didn't build.
So,two points to go on. First,units request:
As Warlord well said, we need axes overall. NotA,Riversight and Coopertown
(if not EA,too) must build them at top speed (I know,no slavery).

Battles:
I said attack, but this do not mean foolishly or suicide (the best pieces to
sacrifice are the ones belonging to the enemy). Always pick unfair fights,
that is,they always pay higher than us.(Obvious,cities count and a lot).
So, now counter said axe with two axes and one chariot; and raze Rheims
(1 axe and 3 chariots v. one spear and 1 archer) if the other archer goes
behind reconsider and they are on the defensive; use the axe near Riversight
to threat Lyons and "keep" there the spear and archer.
And remember we cannot destroy their navy so we must destroy the
passengers.

Warlord and soldiers: the heart of the people goes with you!

 

[Hyronymus]

Does razing a city affect our name?

 

[fed1943]

Our diplomatic situation? Just with France.

Best regards,

 

[Hyronymus]

Well, I'm not entiely sure if razing Rheims will be good. Surely Coppertown will have room to grow but what could Rheims become for our nation? It gives us access to the sea at maybe a perfect spot.

 

[Falcon02]

@ Cornoe - I'm not so much thinking France has mostly Spearmen. We do know they do have two, and at this point ~ 1 per city. What I am assuming is France has mostly Melee units + Archers. Against Melee units Axemen are unstoppable, except other Axemen, which of course is 50/50 (this is one palce where the Keshiks are handy). Archers at this point are relatively weak vs. Axemen or Keshiks. So worst case scenario (ignoring Promotions) Axemen will have about a 50% chance of victory... compared to Keshiks which have a 8 v 6 str match up. That's all I'm really refering to.

I'm essentially vouching for Efficiency over speed, I'd prefer we end up with alot of units with alot of promotions rather then losing a large portion of our Army due to rushing into the unknown. Also it should be noted that Axemen are much cheaper to produce, thus we can produce more of them more quickly.


Also on the subject of Razing cities. I am not one for razing most of the time, by default I won't order the razing of cities unless the citizens want me to, or I see significant justification for it.

@ Fed, You say "clearly Rheims must be razed" please elaborate on your reasoning, and why it applies to Rheims, but is less certain for Lyons.

EDIT: On another note, as I mentioned in the Warlord's Thread Construction should be made a research priority for the next game session, so that we can start building Catapults.

 

[robboo]

I also proposed that we attempt a cease fire/peace deal as often as possible. IF we can get 10 turns without attacks, we can wipe them out.

 

[Falcon02]

Robboo, please elaborate. Not sure I understand what you're saying.

Are you saying Sue for Peace as soon as able? and declare war on them later?

 

[robboo]

yep..we were in a bad situation with really not enough troops. IF we can get peace for free we can then prepare and better position our troops for an invasion.