Warmonger status now involves chain DOWs?!?

[Dralix]

I wouldn't want to be your friend either. Just sayin ...

EDIT: On second thought, Sweden DOWing you changes that a bit.

 

[bcaiko]

The game does seem to lend itself to overweighing the warmonger penalty with your friends. If you've had a game where you're warmongering but have left your good friend and neighbor alone - that neighbor will inevitably backstab you now. It will ALWAYS happen, no matter how nice you are to the friend and how little your warmongering effects their victory.

Certainly, the world shouldn't be prone to like a warmonger, but the AI does seem to strangely ignore, at points, the clear benefits of being your friend and not your target.

 

[MantaRevan]

I've got a save from just a few turns before the massive dow occurs, although I've done a few things differently from the reload to prevent it, you guys can have a look and make suggestions if you like.

 

[boghog]

the AI does seem to strangely ignore, at points, the clear benefits of being your friend.

There are no long-time benefits to being the friend of a domination civ. There is no second place in CiV.

However:
I find that you have to look at who the other civs in the game are before you decide to go for a DV. If you have other warmongers in there that's perfect. Don't engage them, even though they are hated. Steer them towards attacking other civs and then later conquer the cities they have conquered and liberate all (or at least some of the less desirable ones) but keep the capitals - preferably from long wiped-out civs. They will hold your hand through all the grief you may be getting from others. There are your trading partners for money, luxuries and WC votes should you need them.

In my last game as Venice I only ever fought two wars: one against France, who had wiped out the Huns and had conquered much of Persia and Spain, and one against Russia, who had destroyed the Celts and taken Egypt's capital. Even while I was besieging the last capital, everybody else still loved me. If you're up against a load of namby-pamby, peace-loving, chain-DoFing SV and CV civs you're sure to have a united front against you pretty quickly if you start to attack anyone.

 

[apocalypse105]

As soon as you declare 2 times all the pacifisst other leaders get angry at you


the problem with brave new world is that its made towards peacefull victories trade routes( withouth them you lose) and the world congress.

It feels like going domination victory isn't worth it because you will get a trade embargo and after that they embargo city states what are you suposed to do?

80% of the leaders hate warmongers and will gang up on you if you become agressive it becomes a little bit annoying. Instead of fixing the warmonger penalty they made it server larger.

I thinx i've never finished a domination game because other victories are that much easier

 

[Aramis604]

It feels like going domination victory isn't worth it because you will get a trade embargo and after that they embargo city states what are you suposed to do?

Options:
* Complete the domination victory before the WC can enact the embargo
* Try to maintain enough city-state relationships that you can counter or prevent the embargo from getting enacted
* If the embargo is enacted and you cannot get the votes to repeal it, capture the city-states (or other cities) with the resources that you need.


On the general topic more specifically. Seems to make perfect sense to me that if you're playing very aggressive and pushing for a domination victory, that the rest of the world should hate you... including your friends. Lets be honest, they are only your 'friend' for as long as you need them to be. Eventually you are going to need their capitol too. Why is it unreasonable for Civs to hate you when they know for a fact that eventually you're going to turn on them?

If you had a friend in real life that; by some bit of magic, you knew without any doubt they were going to stab you in the back next year, could you honestly remain their friend in the time leading up to the betrayal?

 

[Polisurgist]

Post-BNW, the game is absolutely not geared against domination victories. It is absolutely geared against dumb domination victories of the sort that *ahem* dominated the game previously.

 

[apocalypse105]

I've actulaye tested something today RAZING CITIES drasticly increase warmonger penalty doing it twice can get leaders verry mad pretty quickly..

So only raze cities in the late game when you allready control 3 capitals. Never do it in you're first 2 wars. I've learned that the hard lesson.



These are my tips for dominaiton:

-Only go for a domination victory if there are at least 2 warmongers in the game and they are strong They will become you're trading partners
-Pick at least 3 city states you want to be friends with and use for trade routes sometimes you can't use trade routes to major civs because you are going to kill them
- Control a lot of City state at least 3 to counter world congress votes of embargo's if you are going for a domination victory you need to control the world congress or have a friend who controlls it(a warmonger friend montezuma for example)
-Only declare war 2 times early game and atack multiple people in the late game for the victory
- if you are the only one capturing capitals you should consider going for a other victory because it will take to long

 

[Polisurgist]

These are my tips for dominaiton:

These are almost entirely terrible bits of advice and grammar.

-Only go for a domination victory if there are at least 2 warmongers in the game and they are strong They will become you're trading partners

Close, but try to make sure that some other civs at least tolerate warmongers (this isn't the same thing as being a warmonger themselves). Or bypass this entirely and actually try to become friends with another civ or two in order to mitigate the penalty they get toward you.

-Pick at least 3 city states you want to be friends with and use for trade routes sometimes you can't use trade routes to major civs because you are going to kill them

This is actually close to the mark, but also make sure they're close to you. Remember that taking city-states doesn't get you closer to your domination victory and you might need some trading partners who can't kill you.

- Control a lot of City state at least 3 to counter world congress votes of embargo's if you are going for a domination victory you need to control the world congress or have a friend who controlls it(a warmonger friend montezuma for example)

Don't let your "friends" control these allies; you control these allies. Your "friend" Monty is going to screw you over. But it's on the right track in that you can no longer just ignore everything but war and expect to win a domination victory.

-Only declare war 2 times early game and atack multiple people in the late game for the victory

This is great advice for avoiding being labeled a warmonger, but if you're going for a domination victory, you'll do better to embrace that label and live up to it.

- if you are the only one capturing capitals you should consider going for a other victory because it will take to long

This is basically like saying "I haven't read anything about BNW much less finished a game." The domination victory requires that you control all the original capitals in the game, and you're going to have a much harder time taking them from your brothers in warmongery than you will from your peacenik neighbors. In no case should you do what this piece of advice recommends.

 

[Aramis604]

- if you are the only one capturing capitals you should consider going for a other victory because it will take to long

What does it matter how many civs are capturing capitols or not? In order to win a domination victory you still have to control all capitols... so it's going to be a similar time to complete regardless of competition.

 

[superliminal]

It's useful to make a warmongering friend. I did this in a recent game with Aztecs. Me and Dido slowly carved up the world. I think as long as you're in the war together you don't receive the warmongering penalty (though sometimes the AI will reneg and back out of the war early). Toward the late game I didn't even need to bribe her, she just suggested the next target and we went after it. I had a better positioned military, so I generally ended up taking the capital while she took the colonies. I was also working on culture/tourism and had already become influential with Dido, so by the time we took out Venice I had a victory. Of course, the other option would have been when there's just the two of us left, gather the troops around her capital and backstab. No one left at that point to care.

 

[MantaRevan]

I somehow avoided the massive DoW chain by loading an earlier save and renewing DoF with Japan. They all denounced and insulted me anyway(even Japan), but no world war. Things took a turn for the better after I passed Scholars in Residence and ripped SoZ from Casmir's greedy little fingers. My level 3 spy I was using to catch up in tech got killed, but I already discovered Scientific Theory and Rifling before that happened. I don't know if I can win, but I think I have a fair shot.

 

[Yzman]

You did play the game poorly. You have to know how the mechanics work.

I did a domination victory as Assyria and never got chain declared on for being a warmonger. It was my proudest victory yet.

The key steps I took.

1. If a civ doesn't know you are the civ you wipe out, they won't EVER KNOW. I cleared my continent of 3 civs and no one on the other continent ever knew they even existed.

2. Don't ever denounce. Seriously. As far as I can tell, the only thing that denouncing does is make a civ and other civs hate you more, it does nothing to lessen the warmonger penalty.

3. Have the other AIs be at war with the same civ. If they are at war with the same civ as you, they DO NOT CARE what you do. Thats right, as long as you only take cities while you are sharing a war with someone, you get no warmonger penalty whatsoever. This is what people mean by making blocks and forming alliances.

I had Denmark friendly with me even after I had taken over every other civ because he was always my war partner. Well until I took his capital finally.

Key lesson: IF YOU ACT LIKE A WARMONGER, YOU WILL BE TREATED LIKE ONE, unless you have friends along for the ride!

 

[Anarchist]

The domination victory requires that you control all the original capitals in the game, and you're going to have a much harder time taking them from your brothers in warmongery than you will from your peacenik neighbors. In no case should you do what this piece of advice recommends.

What does it matter how many civs are capturing capitols or not? In order to win a domination victory you still have to control all capitols... so it's going to be a similar time to complete regardless of competition.

possibly due to a misunderstanding, but:
The fewer civs that still own their own capitals, the fewer civs you have to attack to claim all the capitals. Basically you can befriend all civs who have lost their own capital (to another civ, or even possibly yourself if it happened a long time ago). This is a Very Good Strategy.

 

[Anarchist]

You did play the game poorly. You have to know how the mechanics work.

I did a domination victory as Assyria and never got chain declared on for being a warmonger. It was my proudest victory yet.

The key steps I took.

1. If a civ doesn't know you are the civ you wipe out, they won't EVER KNOW. I cleared my continent of 3 civs and no one on the other continent ever knew they even existed.

2. Don't ever denounce. Seriously. As far as I can tell, the only thing that denouncing does is make a civ and other civs hate you more, it does nothing to lessen the warmonger penalty.

3. Have the other AIs be at war with the same civ. If they are at war with the same civ as you, they DO NOT CARE what you do. Thats right, as long as you only take cities while you are sharing a war with someone, you get no warmonger penalty whatsoever. This is what people mean by making blocks and forming alliances.

I had Denmark friendly with me even after I had taken over every other civ because he was always my war partner. Well until I took his capital finally.

Key lesson: IF YOU ACT LIKE A WARMONGER, YOU WILL BE TREATED LIKE ONE, unless you have friends along for the ride!

1. Agree fully (and it's kinda fun).

2. I disagree, and there are many posts that also disagree. I will try the 'don't denounce before attacking' on a save one day and see what difference is made, as you may be right. BUT, when you have a DoF, you MUST denounce, as it breaks that DoF. If you still have one and attack, I think AI civs regard you as untrustworthy. Again, I have no proof yet, so may test it.

3. Agreed. It is also beneficial (as I wrote above) to create alliances with civs that have lost their capitals, so you can take them without additional penalty. I also like to gather my friends around me and attack the strongest civs first. That leaves me an easier job of picking off my *ahem* friends (hey, all's fair in love & war, eh?)

 

[rodrigoq]

On diety Chainn denounce and DoW's are normal if relations go to hell, or you start on your path to domination. I generally take patronage so I can ally as many CS as possible. If I'm going to wipe someone off the planet, I make sure every CS near them is my ally. Not only does this reduce my losses, but I can let the CS's take cities, and keep them(more sci for me) or raze them.(again, no penalty for me) On top of that, and CS's that would act as a buffer between me and a new DoW are usually high friendly or an ally, so I can pop them as allies quickly if things look bad. On Domination/Razing.. if you have Atilla on your map, gift him every new city you take that you want razed.. he will glady take them, then promptly raze them. I Generally will defeat Atilla early, and trap him in a terrible location, just so I can feed him cities later. Even if he does keep a few cities, his tech is usually 3rd world.

I love chain DoW;s. If you can beat them all back, sometimes you can settle for peace and end up with most of the civ's paying you gpt, while you buy the army that will kill them. I had a game where I was knocking out germany... sweden, france and babylon DoW'ed too late, Germany fell and I started to take them down. They all settled for peace when their units were gone, and I ended up with a hefty 350gpt settlement from the 3 combined. Enough time to get my army huge again and stomp them when the peace deal ended.

 

[Anarchist]

All in all, I am beginning to like warmongering and domination victories much more in BNW, although I may be in a minority. You have to pay much more attention to politic rather than the Stack Of Doom approach in past versions. It makes it a bit more real, and a lot more fun (IMO).

 

[Anarchist]

If I'm going to wipe someone off the planet, I make sure every CS near them is my ally. Not only does this reduce my losses, but I can let the CS's take cities, and keep them(more sci for me) or raze them.(again, no penalty for me) On top of that, and CS's that would act as a buffer between me and a new DoW are usually high friendly or an ally, so I can pop them as allies quickly if things look bad. On Domination/Razing.. if you have Atilla on your map, gift him every new city you take that you want razed.. he will glady take them, then promptly raze them. I Generally will defeat Atilla early, and trap him in a terrible location, just so I can feed him cities later. Even if he does keep a few cities, his tech is usually 3rd world.

I do the same with CS. It mostly keeps my new enemy very busy while I plow toward his capital.

I like the Atilla Razing Strat! I will keep that one in mind!

 

[Kaigen]

2. I disagree, and there are many posts that also disagree. I will try the 'don't denounce before attacking' on a save one day and see what difference is made, as you may be right. BUT, when you have a DoF, you MUST denounce, as it breaks that DoF. If you still have one and attack, I think AI civs regard you as untrustworthy. Again, I have no proof yet, so may test it.

You definitely don't want to DoW someone you have a DoF with, but you get a diplomatic hit nearly as bad for denouncing someone you have a DoF with. If possible, you should probably just wait for the DoF to expire before you attack (or don't make the DoF in the first place if it's someone high on your list of civs to conquer).

 

[Polisurgist]

possibly due to a misunderstanding, but:
The fewer civs that still own their own capitals, the fewer civs you have to attack to claim all the capitals. Basically you can befriend all civs who have lost their own capital (to another civ, or even possibly yourself if it happened a long time ago). This is a Very Good Strategy.

Ah, so if Monty takes London before you do, you don't have to declare war on England in order to win. I can see the sense in that, but if I'm doing that to avoid getting Elizabeth mad, it's kind of a lost cause because either she'll be too weak to help or I won't care because I planned to have the world against me at some point anyway.