Warmongering needs to inspire fear as well

[Kozmos]

The warmonger maluses have been bugging me for a long time across many civs and I think I finally realized why. They are one-sided punishments for actions you usually choose to do, but sometimes are forced upon you when you get tired of other civs just dragging you into war every 200 years so you get tired of it and choose to wipe them out decisively.

Should players and AIs receive diplomatic bonuses for successful warmongering from weaker civs? I think it makes sense. Stronger civs would rightfully be wary of you and hate you while weaker civs would be afraid of your military might and more prone to lopsided deals that favour you.

 

[Mustakrakish]

Yeah, I agree. Always wanted that and yet it's never implemented. I wonder if it's such a hard concept to grasp or what the hell...

 

[Xyriach]

Absolutely. It certainly impacts on the human player. If the Aztecs for example have a massive army and are conquering other civs, as the human player you're going to factor that in when they ask for something, so it's only reasonable that the computer civs do too.

I played a domination game a couple of days back when I'd wiped out 4 other civs, had a military that could one shot multiple cities at a time and when asking for a couple of luxury resources from Teddy, an orange and some silk was apparently in his mind worth all of my gold and strategic resources....erm, how about I kill you and just take the resources for myself then....which is what happened.

Fear, will keep the local systems in line....

 

[pietro1990]

Just remove the penalty for declaring war. and give penalty for taking cities makes more sence

 

[esoba]

I guess I hadn't really thought about it, but there should definitely be some fear mechanic in. However, the problem I can see with that is that it would be really exploitable if not done correctly.

 

[Cerilis]

I had a modifier with my neighbours once that was like "feels threatened by my stronger military" ... it was somestimes negative and sometimes positive (although the latter might have been just after an early war I won).
I later found out they both have the paranoid hidden agenda.

 

[Iron Angel]

That would be a very neat feature.
It is not always you want to go to war, but instead is dragged into one by the declaring civ.
But I suspect the 'Warmonger' feature is a bit broken? I made a joint war agreement with Japan, and he was very happy to follow me. Then in the next turn he denounces me for being a warmonger? What the hell man?

 

[Nefelia]

It would make sense for weaker civs to pay for alliances (or even just mutual defense pacts) with stronger nations, even if that nation is a war-mongering brute.

 

[Uberfrog]

That would be a very neat feature.
It is not always you want to go to war, but instead is dragged into one by the declaring civ.
But I suspect the 'Warmonger' feature is a bit broken? I made a joint war agreement with Japan, and he was very happy to follow me. Then in the next turn he denounces me for being a warmonger? What the hell man?

Yeah there appear to be issues with AI not ignoring warmonger penalties for joint wars. They need to fix this.

A fear mechanic would be good, if incorporated with the Demand feature in diplomacy. I haven't tried this in game yet, so don't know the current state. It makes sense that if they fear you they hate you though.

 

[bcaiko]

Yeah, this is a very good idea, at least to some extent. Just as Cleopatra respects a strong military, the AI should adjust its belligerency to avoid getting its butt kicked in.

But I suspect the 'Warmonger' feature is a bit broken? I made a joint war agreement with Japan, and he was very happy to follow me. Then in the next turn he denounces me for being a warmonger? What the hell man?

I had the exact same experience. The warmonger penalties are clearly broken right now.

 

[Ryika]

Rising Tide did that (although unfortunately not very well), and I liked it. Yes, weaker powers should get "afraid" and seemingly "like" you for it.

However, if a bigger Civ declares war on you and starts beating you up, those smaller Civs should join in and backstab you.

 

[Stringer1313]

One potential easily fix maybe is that you should get a reduced warmonger penalty if another civilization has previously declared war on you (or maybe previously declared a surprise war on you, or previously declared war on your multiple times). I am still playing my first game, and i definitely launched a war against a neighbor who kept declaring war on me and I just wanted to shut him up and remove the threat forever

 

[Larsenex]

Absolutely. It certainly impacts on the human player. If the Aztecs for example have a massive army and are conquering other civs, as the human player you're going to factor that in when they ask for something, so it's only reasonable that the computer civs do too.

I played a domination game a couple of days back when I'd wiped out 4 other civs, had a military that could one shot multiple cities at a time and when asking for a couple of luxury resources from Teddy, an orange and some silk was apparently in his mind worth all of my gold and strategic resources....erm, how about I kill you and just take the resources for myself then....which is what happened.

Fear, will keep the local systems in line....

Best line ever ^^^^^^^

 

[steveg700]

If you have a strong military, weaker civ's should not DoW you, at least not without a join war. It should drive them to form alliances, either with your or other civ's.

Mind you, that's separate and distinct from whether they should like or dislike you with diplo modifiers.

 

[cutelilduck]

Thematically, fear is awesome. It exists to some extent in other games (I think EL?) and its super immersive. In terms of game balance, its a little trickier. You don't want the AI to reward and gift players for taking cities (positive and a positive). Stellaris and EL really do AI rallying behavior (against military players) quite well.

 

[Kozmos]

I think there also needs to be some kind of 'Realm divide' ala Shogun 2 counter, maybe obscure maybe transparent where if your military power or bullying goes too far, AIs sets aside their differences and unite against you in a global war. I can forsee this being hard to implement and annoying to deal with as a player, but it would make planning for wars or setting up false flag operations via spies more meaningful, not to mention the increased challenge in the late game which is usually just tedious mop-ops.