We wuz greeks :)

[Kyriakos]

Nice video of a girl that claims it is reactionary to be dismissive of the new bbc Troy series due to Achilles, Patroklos, Zeus and whatever being played by black actors. Then tries to read one of the comments of those being against it, and thinks he speaks of a "Liliad"

:/ Seriously, ppl. Web access is basic by now, but how exactly can anyone -- anyone -- wish to make a video of this when they don't even know of the Iliad? Not all things have to be sjw.

Anyway, this new series seems set to bomb, and deserved to as well. Last but not least: Agamemnon is - of course - a run of the mill cockney gangster, probably sells smuggled cigarettes when not invading Asia Minor.

 

[Broken_Erika]

And if they weren't played by black actors their producer would probably get in trouble for "failing to show racial and ethnic diversity in their casting"

 

[Katie88]

Last but not least: Agamemnon is - of course - a run of the mill cockney gangster, probably sells smuggled cigarettes when not invading Asia Minor.

“'ere, tell you what, I've got a lovely lot in right now, all the way from Elam, none of that Mesopotamian rubbish. Let’s do a deal. You know it makes sense.”

I think I’ll be giving this show a miss.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

In the original, widely celebrated Clash of the Titans movie, every single actor representing a citizien of Ethiopia is pale as snow white, not even mediterrenean, anglo-pale.

I honestly don't see the problem. They could have Odysseus played by a transsexual, or Patroklos by a Chinese guy, or Zeus played by a donkey, as long as they fit the role and act well.

I am much more concerned about Agamemnon's character protrayal to be honest.

And if they weren't played by black actors their producer would probably get in trouble for "failing to show racial and ethnic diversity in their casting"

Do you ever make a post with the genuine intent of saying something meaningful or do you just want to chime in for the likes?

 

[Ryika]

The "We wuz Kingz" meme originated on 4-chan, where users of the /pol/itically incorrect board used it to make fun of the slang used by the mostly lowly educated, black community that buys into the Black Egyptian Hypothesis. It is generally considered to be racist, and funny.

 

[Yeekim]

A lead actor who does not look the part obviously disturbs immersion.

Black Achilles would have to be exceptionally good to be believable and not an annoying immersion breaker.
I would much rather watch that actor play a black character in a movie based on some African myths. This would have added value by being interesting, unlike done-to-death Iliad.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

The "We wuz Kingz" meme originated on 4-chan, where users of the /pol/itically incorrect board used it to make fun of the slang used by the mostly lowly educated, black community that buys into the Black Egyptian Hypothesis. It is generally considered to be racist, and funny.

four minus chan? by the way your taste in memes is, unsurprisingly, terrible

 

[Hrothbern]

The impression I have is that there are not enough Hollywood actors that have a dark complexity but are not black.
Ofc there are many Italian actors, but they are already "tainted" by former roles. Mafia or something like that.
Well... actors from the Middle East.... IDK not many anyway... and not likely to grow in amount in the current political climate.
Actors from (partially) Greek background... Well Telly Savalas, Jennifer Ashton, Billy Zane...
Hispanics ? Well.. they are Hispanics... a bit weird for Troy.

I guess that the main issue is that for a hero, Hollywood seeks a hero !

Most foreign actors get the kind of roles that an "all american" actor will not take because it will hinder his career.
(Even IF you are that White hero actor, like for example Rutger Hauer (Dutch) you end up in some Nazi or other weird role.... somebody has to do it... and that somebody will ofc never be a Harrison Ford ! )

All in all, I think that Hollywood makes decisions out of convenience for B movies, getting their black quota.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

by the way, how do you guys feel about this one?

groundbreaking adaption of the orpheus myth, celebrated movie, included in the criterion collection, raving reviews, great cinematography..

seems like black people playing non-blacks wasn't really an issue for film critics back then

 

[Kyriakos]

The thread is mostly meant to be about the tenuous arguments in favour of using said actors in these roles, which is why i highlighted that the video maker doesn't even know what the Iliad is ^^

It is part of the problem, surely. That trolling has become the mainstream.
Moreover, no one gains anything by using black actors as Achilles/Patroklos/Zeus etc. It is not like this magically changes anyone's life, and yet - non magically - it gets done, resulting in more garbage and trolling.
Btw, while the Iliad may be seen as mythological, it is set in a specific area, is about specific people and political entities, with specific customs, language and clothing. They sort of have specific skin tone too, so it isn't a fairytale where you could argue it is all fantasy so whatever. Achilles, in particular, has blond hair in the Iliad.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

The impression I have is that there are not enough Hollywood actors that have a dark complexity but are not black.
Ofc there are many Italian actors, but they are already "tainted" by former roles. Mafia or something like that.
Well... actors from the Middle East.... IDK not many anyway... and not likely to grow in amount in the current political climate.
Actors from (partially) Greek background... Well Telly Savalas, Jennifer Ashton, Billy Zane...
Hispanics ? Well.. they are Hispanics... a bit weird for Troy.

I guess that the main issue is that for a hero, Hollywood seeks a hero !

Most foreign actors get the kind of roles that an "all american" actor will not take because it will hinder his career.
(Even IF you are that White hero actor, like for example Rutger Hauer (Dutch) you end up in some Nazi or other weird role.... somebody has to do it... and that somebody will ofc never be a Harrison Ford ! )

All in all, I think that Hollywood makes decisions out of convenience for B movies, getting their black quota.

This is the BBC though.

 

[Ryika]

In the original, widely celebrated Clash of the Titans movie, every single actor representing a citizien of Ethiopia is pale as snow white, not even mediterrenean, anglo-pale.

This was however caused by a lack of black actors, not an intentional decision. Surely today that would not fly at all, people would be outraged, the "whitewashing" of movies as it is called, has been a thing to cause outrage even if the "trigger" was a single character.

 

[Hrothbern]

This is the BBC though.

True
as such

Must say that from regularly watching the typical detective and other BBC television series, I do not get the impression that there are many actors available in that pool with a dark complexity as well.
And Hollywood does set the tone regarding movies.

After all
Getting money out of a movie is living up to expectations.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

This is the BBC though.

Precisely. And most of us with above family friendly rating knowledge know what that stands for.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

After all
Getting money out of a movie is living up to expectations.

Is this cultural bomb supposed to be African best seller?

 

[yung.carl.jung]

This was however caused by a lack of black actors, not an intentional decision. Surely today that would not fly at all, people would be outraged, the "whitewashing" of movies as it is called, has been a thing to cause outrage even if the "trigger" was a single character.

Where did you get this "lack of black actors" bit from? Would like to read up on that, I always thought I was an expert on 80's sword and sandals flicks, but one can never learn enough

 

[Ryika]

Where did you get this "lack of black actors" bit from? Would like to read up on that, I always thought I was an expert on 80's sword and sandals flicks, but one can never learn enough

Uhh, now that you mention it... I have no idea actually. I think I've heard it during the discussions about the remake, but I have no idea what source that statement was from and thus how credible it is. Consider my comment withdrawn.

 

[Borachio]

Btw, while the Iliad may be seen as mythological, it is set in a specific area, is about specific people and political entities, with specific customs, language and clothing. They sort of have specific skin tone too, so it isn't a fairytale where you could argue it is all fantasy so whatever. Achilles, in particular, has blond hair in the Iliad.

Well OK.

But what does it matter what their "specific skin tone" is, or their colour of hair?

As far as I know neither of those are crucial to the story.

 

[Kyriakos]

Well OK.

But what does it matter what their "specific skin tone" is, or their colour of hair?

As far as I know neither of those are crucial to the story.

Well, it isn't that crucial to the story if you make Achilles have an Achilles nose, and die when hit there by an arrow. It still would be rather needless, and rather destructive a change, no?

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

Well OK.

But what does it matter what their "specific skin tone" is, or their colour of hair?

As far as I know neither of those are crucial to the story.

In the world where we are all going to die nothing is crucial apparently. I even wonder why Homer have bothered to pen it down at all and most of all why being such a superstar of written word he felt any need to describe Achilles' features in detail but may be in his wisdom he knew that in case of need the generations to come will use one of the most powerful weapons in existence to deal with his too narrow kind of poetry: ignorance.