Weakest trait?

[Smellincoffee]

In C3C, what would you think of as the weakest trait? I was thinking of modding the game so that civs with weaker traits would have access to exclusive buildings or units, in order to level the playing field. This would be done by probably giving them a free tech or by messing with the new "flavor" options so no one else would research these particular techs.

 

[Revolutionary]

it depends on the map

example: in a pangea seafaring is the most useless

in island maps Exp. trait is the most useless

in tiny maps Com. is very weak because the more cities you have the better the this trait is, the same with the Agr. trait

there are more but I'm too lazy to post them all

 

[Gengis Khan]

Can't really tell you, all traits are strengthened or weakend by the map settings, victory goals, AI opponents, variant(if playing)ect ect. (Some much more then others though)

If using random everything & my average game style, I'd go with Religious. Not worth it, since I normally only make a breif stop to Monarchy on my way to crushing my enemies.

 

[ReZurrecti0n]

Yeah... It all depends on the game style you currently play

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

For me, Industrial. The only trait that gives nothing that cannot be replaced by simply more units of a certain type (Slaves!).

 

[nullspace]

With some map settings, expansionistic can be entirely worthless. On an archipelago with no barbarians, expansionsitic might as well be no trait at all. Seafaring is at least slightly useful on a pangea: you get those cheap harbors for food and trade routes, and a little bit of extra trade.

I think you could mod expansionistic to have half-price courthouses and that would be entirely fair. Cheap courthouses help a large empire be more efficient, which seems to be in the spirit of the expansionistic trait.

Edit: I just saw Doc Tsiolkovski's post, and I'll say that Industrious is the most over-rated trait for the reasons he said. You'll eventually have enough workers, whether you're industrious or not. But industrious is nice in the beginning of the game when losing a population for each worker is significant, and if you are in a government that must pay support for each one. Plus, industrious always helps, it's not dependent on map settings or strategy like some other traits are.

 

[Dogmeat]

Commercial is almost completely useless in the ancient ages. Since it's important to get a good start it makes the commercial trait quite weak.

And since expansionist CAN be useful even on archipelagoes
(if you share an island with an AI, snatching a settler form a hut can be just as gamebreaking as on a pangea),
My vote will have to go to the commercial trait.

Militaristic is a candidate as well, but since armies are so powerful nowadays you need all the elite-promotions you can get.

 

[AdHHH]

Like you guys say, this is map dependent, but Id say Commercial as I never play on maps bigger than 'normal'

 

[Gogf]

@Dogmeat: When you have no barbarians, there are no goodie guts.

Like everyone said, it really does matter what map you choose.

 

[metalhead]

Commercial is not map dependant, since the OCN for small maps is lower than that for the larger maps. In fact, one could argue that it's stronger on smaller maps, because you have to do with fewer cities, which become corrupt very fast.

 

[benjamin28]

I believe that Expansionistic is the worst, because it depends of a LOT of conditions:
1- Pangea maps
2- Barbarians
3- Huge maps
4- No mountains (except for the Incas)
5- No more expansionistc civs
6- It endures only in the Ancient Age, while USA and Russia are modern and powerful empires, for example.
The Courthouse half priced is a very good option.

Do the conquests use traits? How can be useful in the Napoleonic wars, for example?

 

[AdHHH]

Well, it's still my least favourite trait... Id still take a trait 'randomly' if it was possible rather than take Commercial, but that's just how I play.

 

[Zardnaar]

Militaristic. Most other civ trait combos lend themselves to war.

 

[tomart109]

Hmm, interesting. In my style of play, i mandate barracks almost everywhere, often as the first build (certainly before any military units (except for the first couple of cities, of course)) and usually my focus throughout the game is on promotions to get those precious Elites, so as to get as many of those all-important MGLs as humanly possible, so my priceless Armies can roll over neighbors, accumulating lebensraum, smiting evil empires, righting wrongs, compensating for my civ's weaknesses, etc.

And all this time, i've been choosing such traits as Agricultural, Industrious and Religious... Gee, suddenly it all seems so clear... Thanks for enlightening me!

 

[Longasc]

For me Expansionist. Seafaring is also a waste on Pangeas.

These traits are very map dependant - Expansionist can be boon or bust.

Militaristic is not bad, but it is not as strong as other traits. People underestimate that they will get elites quicker and through more elite units higher chances for a MGL - but with Conquests, the usefulness of MGLs has been GREATLY reduced... so I would say:

1.) Expansionist
2.) Seafaring
3.) Militaristic

NOTE: On Emperor and above, goody huts are bloody huts. With Expansionist, you will get many good things out of them, without you will find them often next to useless, often ending in killed warrior scouts and so on... you have a higher chance to get a bad thing out of the huts on higher difficulties.

 

[Gainy]

I believe that Expansionistic is the worst, because it depends of a LOT of conditions:

No it doesn't.

1- Pangea maps

You can use it to great effect on continents also.

2- Barbarians

I'm confused by this. You can just set the barbarians to be sedenatary, without any effect to the map.

3- Huge maps

I have never used it on a huge map, I have never used it on a Large map. I play Standard sized maps, and it is a fantastic trait.

4- No mountains (except for the Incas)

That is stupid. Mountains are a help to scouts, as if you see one out in the open, you can move towards it and see more of the surrounding terrain.
You are never going to get 3 whole columns of mountains on any maps anyways, besides the fact that it is only going to slow you down for a turn or so. It is insignificant.

5- No more expansionistc civs

Emm... You are still going to be able to get a hell of alot of huts. The AI starts off with loads of warriors and whatever anyways, so it doesnt matter if they are expansionist or not.

It endures only in the Ancient Age

Well if you use it properly you can easily be finished by the Medieval age, so that doesn't matter. And you can still explore once you get to the Medieval times anyways. Infact, the only thing which doesn't endure to the medieval ages is getting techs from huts, you can still get anything else you usually would.

All of your points are ********, there is no chance that you know how to use this trait properly.

Expansionist is the best trait for Pangaea/Continents maps. Ok, it might be slightly circumstancial, but I get a free settler/city every 2nd game. It's more like every 2/3 games.

The only time this trait is not particularly useful is on Archipegalo maps, although it still can be good.

I say seafaring, as I never build a navy, and I don't like starting next to the water.

 

[Smellincoffee]

For those interested, I've made a list of ideas for making these weaker traits stronger.

 

[The Last Conformist]

I've always felt that Militaristic is, overall, the weakest.

Seafaring and Expansionistic can be totally wasted in some situations in a way Mil almost never is, tho.

 

[Vizurok]

Expansionist and Seafaring I say but in the early game, they are not bad.
Agricultural, I hate desert maps without rivers, so this is solved for me.

 

[Cuivienen]

Seafaring's chief advantage that seems to have been missed by everyone here is not the extra movement to ships, nor is it the lowered Curragh/Galley/Caravel losses. It is the extra commerce in ALL TOWNS placed on the coast. That, combined with the cheaper Harbors, make Seafaring a quite potent trait and make the Byzantines an even more effective research engine than the Greeks. Plus, Seafaring civs start with Alphabet, the best starting tech because of its inherent usefulness as trade bait and as a rung on the ladder to Philosophy.