[Vanilla] What are your thoughts on 0 adjacency bonuses campus?

[Bliss]

Do you think it is a worthy investment early in the game? Do you skip it for a commercial hub?

 

[Victoria]

There is quite a few eurekas/inspirations tied to campuses and science is still science. There is a citizen slot and projects. I would rather replace with a holy site.

 

[MaxNacemit]

If I can't get a good campus early on, I would rather build a wonder, a comm hub or a holy site.

 

[Bliss]

There is quite a few eurekas/inspirations tied to campuses and science is still science. There is a citizen slot and projects. I would rather replace with a holy site.

But in this case we are talking about only 1 Great Scientist point (+1 point and +2 beakers if you invest more 90 production for a library). Doesn't it seem like a big blow to your early economy? Sure, eventually, these 2 points GS points will stack up, but until then some raw yields could be more worthy, even if they are not related to science. Do you agree?

 

[UWHabs]

I have trouble with no adjacency on a campus (or really any district) until I'm a little more settled. The exception being if I met a couple scientific city-states and thus I can put down a +6 library not too long after the district. But early game production is hard to come by, that if I plan that, I'm going to see 5 warriors from my neighbour coming towards me before the library is half done.

 

[Victoria]

But in this case we are talking about only 1 Great Scientist point (+1 point and +2 beakers if you invest more 90 production for a library). Doesn't it seem like a big blow to your early economy?

You need to build a district to get the state workforce inspiration worth 28 culture which is quite a few turns at the beginning of the game. Whether you choose to do this and wether it is a campus are questions in here but this is a valued thing many good players do.
Recorded history is a very powerful civic due to the 100% campus adjacency, sure your first campus may not get much adjacency but as a minimum it gets 2 adjacency so I have no idea how that equates to no adjacency claimed but you chose where your second campus goes with likely to be 2-3 adjacency at least by T80-90 so the campus adjacency card is well worth it regardless, and that has an inspirational values 70 culture
Now whether you want Hypatia or not there is an education eureka worth 156 science for a great scientist and this is well worth reaching for by using a campus for your recorded history inspiration.

There is a slot that could be worked if you cared to build a library in that campus and had the spare pop but it is unlikely. What is less likely is getting a 0 adjacency campus because building a campus and a government plaza as a triangle with your city centre gives +2 science...

So that is at least 2 science, possibly doubled to 4, with a library for 2, possibly(unlikely) 3 with Hypatia and unlikely use of the slot gives +2 and then we could have Pingala in that city also. Adding to this 2 inspirations and a eureka of good value.... and all of this without a mountain or reef in sight.

Perhaps not a big blow to your economy, I guess science is not important to you?

 

[MaxNacemit]

You need to build a district to get the state workforce inspiration worth 28 culture which is quite a few turns at the beginning of the game. Whether you choose to do this and wether it is a campus are questions in here but this is a valued thing many good players do.
Recorded history is a very powerful civic due to the 100% campus adjacency, sure your first campus may not get much adjacency but as a minimum it gets 2 adjacency so I have no idea how that equates to no adjacency claimed but you chose where your second campus goes with likely to be 2-3 adjacency at least by T80-90 so the campus adjacency card is well worth it regardless, and that has an inspirational values 70 culture
Now whether you want Hypatia or not there is an education eureka worth 156 science for a great scientist and this is well worth reaching for by using a campus for your recorded history inspiration.

There is a slot that could be worked if you cared to build a library in that campus and had the spare pop but it is unlikely. What is less likely is getting a 0 adjacency campus because building a campus and a government plaza as a triangle with your city centre gives +2 science...

So that is at least 2 science, possibly doubled to 4, with a library for 2, possibly(unlikely) 3 with Hypatia and unlikely use of the slot gives +2 and then we could have Pingala in that city also. Adding to this 2 inspirations and a eureka of good value.... and all of this without a mountain or reef in sight.

Perhaps not a big blow to your economy, I guess science is not important to you?

Science(well, early science) is not as important as people think.Surely, you will need at least some science even if you aren't going for a science victory, but if you don't have good campus spots, a holy site(or an encampment if you're a warmonger) will do for the state workforce boost, and you can get your science from pingala and delay campuses until you expand. I find early culture to be much more important - and that's the reason why I think Trajan's Column is better than his legions. Early culture gets you to PolPhil, and that gives you +1 on everything(a big thing in the early game, especially when it goes to +2), or an opportunity to grow your cities better, or a military edge.

 

[Victoria]

I find early culture to be much more important -

I have always advocated culture as being more important earlier but the question was about campus and I pointed out the cultural benefits inspirationally are not to be underestimated.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

If you have other good districts you shall go. For example a +4 harbor or +3 holy site or +3 you don't have any other encampments and you need an encampment. (But not for +2 CHs unless you have Free inquiry)

If you don't have any of these, among +0 districts campus is still the best.

Another problem is that why do you place your city on such a spot. For me only do this when I wish to benefit from a nearby natural wonder, but on this case a monument and a granary is more useful than any other things.

 

[Bliss]

If you have other good districts you shall go. For example a +4 harbor or +3 holy site or +3 you don't have any other encampments and you need an encampment. (But not for +2 CHs unless you have Free inquiry)

If you don't have any of these, among +0 districts campus is still the best.

Another problem is that why do you place your city on such a spot. For me only do this when I wish to benefit from a nearby natural wonder, but on this case a monument and a granary is more useful than any other things.

I have gotten lots of mountainless starts as Spain. Something related to the coast bias maybe?

 

[MaxNacemit]

I have gotten lots of mountainless starts as Spain. Something related to the coast bias maybe?

On the coast, you can get reefs for +2 science each. The worst start science-wise is a forest start; the best ones are on continent borders due to geotermal fissures.

 

[tiamats4esgares]

I always prioritize commercial hubs over campuses, regardless (assuming of course no harbor). Is that wrong? Lol

 

[Archon_Wing]

You can usually make it +1 if you make a triangle with it and the center. Plaza also helps.

Holy Sites are a good alternative if you have a good pantheon. Commercial hubs are rarely ever a good idea to go first and +2 gold is really nothing anyways.

 

[Equilin]

You can usually make it +1 if you make a triangle with it and the center. Plaza also helps.

Too bad Vanilla dont have Plaza.

On the coast, you can get reefs for +2 science each. The worst start science-wise is a forest start; the best ones are on continent borders due to geotermal fissures.

Or reefs or fissures.

 

[Victoria]

I have gotten lots of mountainless starts as Spain. Something related to the coast bias maybe?

Yes England has the same issue, just be as efficient as you can and wait for an opportunity. Any civ can win any victory on any level with any map.
A slow start has its advantages and it is not like Spain has an early advantage.

 

[Bliss]

Yes England has the same issue, just be as efficient as you can and wait for an opportunity. Any civ can win any victory on any level with any map.
A slow start has its advantages and it is not like Spain has an early advantage.

Do you mind elaborating on "slow start has its advantages"?

 

[Victoria]

Do you mind elaborating on "slow start has its advantages"?

Sure, it is in relation to the chopping example post linked to below.
If you delay finishing as many techs and civics as possible and try not to get to fast at the start of the game then placing districts is cheaper and then chopping them in is stronger.
You can also troll people in this way where you can finish a bunch of techs/civic quite quickly in the mid game. After all, it is better to have war declared on you than be the aggressor (as long as you avoid a nasty first strike, a defenceless city is one approach here)

 

[Archon_Wing]

oo bad Vanilla dont have Plaza.

Oh right; but you can still get +1 and for the most part adjacency bonus isn't a big deal in Vanilla anyways because of the way Rationalism works. You just want more and Vanilla 6 is just science science science anyways (no governors, etc)

 

[NukeAJS]

If min-maxing, I absolutely build them as my pop 4 district. The first district is almost always a harbor or commercial district. Getting some yield, even if it's small, is still better than no yield at all. As mentioned before, if you can get 3 envoys in scientific CSs, that library becomes much better.

But generally, I don't min-max simply because I don't think it's fun.