Comment on my game!

[SupremacyKing2]

I started a new game as Robert the Bruce. Stirling was a great start location with 2 wheat sources and 3 mercury sources. I got a range of mountains to the east so I am building a campus with +3 adjacency bonus. I also got the chocolate hills!



Haddington has 3 iron sources!! Once I get my iron mines up and running, I will have lots of iron to get swordsmen. I do feel a bit boxed in by the Ottomans and the Ethiopians. I feel like I need to go to war as soon as I get my swordsmen to give myself some breathing room. Unfortunately, I think if I take Bursa, it will very likely flip. I have a settler outside Dundee with no really good place to go IMO.

Here is the overview of the map right now. Thoughts?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I feel like maybe you could at least settle one more city. I'd probably choose the coastal tile under the horses. I can't quite tell if you have horses yet, but if you don't that will help when it comes time to go to war, not to mention gives you access to amber.
If you have loyalty problems, I'd move Llang there and she would help, get it up and running.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

I feel like maybe you could at least settle one more city. I'd probably choose the coastal tile under the horses. I can't quite tell if you have horses yet, but if you don't that will help when it comes time to go to war, not to mention gives you access to amber.
If you have loyalty problems, I'd move Llang there and she would help, get it up and running.

Thanks. The spot you indicated below the horse has a loyalty penalty of -12. So it might be tricky to hold. With a governor, garrisoned unit and monument, I guess I would be ok as long as I don't fall into a dark age. And if I take Bursa, I would be fine.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

It's now 1AD (3 turns before end of Classic Era). I got 2 iron mines and my first swordsmen. I settled Dumfries by the natural wonder and I plan to settle another city just south of Zanzibar, half way between Dumfries and Haddington, to fill that space. In the mean time, the Ottomans have declared war on Ethiopia and captured Lalibela. I plan to go to war with the Ottomans soon. I don't want to let the Ottomans wipe out Ethiopia and take all that territory.

 

[DeckerdJames]

It might be worthwhile to build a preserve next to the Chocolate Hills above Aberdeen. That might get you some food for population growth.

Sometimes, when you know you want to go to war it can be worthwhile to build an entertainment complex in a high population city near their cities. Then you can run bread and circuses after you take a city.

Your area is rather food poor, so it might not be worth it.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

WAR!

 

[SupremacyKing2]

Military emergency victorious!! I razed Bursa and liberated Lalibela back to Ethiopia. I am still at war with the Ottomans. I plan to see if I can take one of their cities now before suing for peace.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

The Ottomans are about to fall to my military might! Both cities should fall soon. The AI offered no resistance. It just had a couple chariots and archers. Nothing it could do against my man-at-arms units.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

Well, I think this game is about done. I feel like I can cruise to victory now. I got 7/20 diplo points so I think I might try for a diplo victory. I will also try for a science victory.

After wiping out the Ottomans, I settled a few more cities, built harbors and commercial districts to build up trade routes. I now have 8 trade routes and generating +200 gold/turn. This has allowed me to get a lot of gold to buy buildings. I've built some campus districts and lots of industrial districts. I've also built builders and improved my terrain. I got several wonders including the colloseum, potalo palace, and I am close to finishing the taj mahal.

It is now turn 246.

Northern part of my civ:



Southern part of my civ:

 

[Futumch]

You scored yourself a nice onion hat! Well done!

 

[UWHabs]

Especially with neighbors already beating each other up, going Military instead of settling Dumphries would have sped things up a little. At that stage you could probably have gotten maybe 2 swordsmen for the price of that settler, and with no walls in the AI cities, swordsmen are more than strong enough to take them down. I'm also not a fan of razing cities - even if I couldn't keep it due to loyalty immediately, I'd rather it flip back independent, and capturing Istanbul would have given you more than enough loyalty to keep it.

Probably I would have also seen Ethiopia as ripe for picking, without any walls, and just gone after them. Especially in a comfortable post-war state, I would like to be a little further ahead of the AI than you are now. Only equal in science and behind in culture per turn. Not saying it's not going to be an easy win from here on out, but you could be even further ahead. Especially as a civ with a science bonus, by this stage of the game you really should be putting yourself in a spot to be doubling anyone else up in science, if you can.

Some other little tips:
-A city like Haddington is great for the resources, but even at this stage it's stuck at size 6. Get some food in there! Even just buying and farming those floodplains, there's 3-4 tiles which are each probably 4 food tiles. If you work them all, your city should be able to hit size 8 or 10 easily, working even more of those mines.
-As I said, I wouldn't have worried about Dumphries quite so early. Yeah, it looks sexy to get a wonder, but it's not that crucial, especially since nobody else looks like they could get there easily.
-Otherwise, pretty solid. Getting a bunch of cities out early is great. Could have turned a little quicker to the war, if you're not up against walls there's no reason to get to Crossbows and Man at Arms to be attacking. I'd say getting the war started earlier might have helped. Even just to keep the economy a little stronger. You don't need as many units as you had, and they were stronger than they needed to be, so that all cost you a lot more. If you coordinate a little better, you can also really try to avoid hard-building more advanced units - try to build the cheaper units and have gold to upgrade them, especially once the 50% discount on upgrade policy card is unlocked.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

Especially with neighbors already beating each other up, going Military instead of settling Dumphries would have sped things up a little. At that stage you could probably have gotten maybe 2 swordsmen for the price of that settler, and with no walls in the AI cities, swordsmen are more than strong enough to take them down. I'm also not a fan of razing cities - even if I couldn't keep it due to loyalty immediately, I'd rather it flip back independent, and capturing Istanbul would have given you more than enough loyalty to keep it.

Probably I would have also seen Ethiopia as ripe for picking, without any walls, and just gone after them. Especially in a comfortable post-war state, I would like to be a little further ahead of the AI than you are now. Only equal in science and behind in culture per turn. Not saying it's not going to be an easy win from here on out, but you could be even further ahead. Especially as a civ with a science bonus, by this stage of the game you really should be putting yourself in a spot to be doubling anyone else up in science, if you can.

Some other little tips:
-A city like Haddington is great for the resources, but even at this stage it's stuck at size 6. Get some food in there! Even just buying and farming those floodplains, there's 3-4 tiles which are each probably 4 food tiles. If you work them all, your city should be able to hit size 8 or 10 easily, working even more of those mines.
-As I said, I wouldn't have worried about Dumphries quite so early. Yeah, it looks sexy to get a wonder, but it's not that crucial, especially since nobody else looks like they could get there easily.
-Otherwise, pretty solid. Getting a bunch of cities out early is great. Could have turned a little quicker to the war, if you're not up against walls there's no reason to get to Crossbows and Man at Arms to be attacking. I'd say getting the war started earlier might have helped. Even just to keep the economy a little stronger. You don't need as many units as you had, and they were stronger than they needed to be, so that all cost you a lot more. If you coordinate a little better, you can also really try to avoid hard-building more advanced units - try to build the cheaper units and have gold to upgrade them, especially once the 50% discount on upgrade policy card is unlocked.

Thanks. That is good advice. To be clear, I usually don't wait until crossbows and man-at-arms to go a war. I normally rush with archers and swordsmen. I think I just got iron late in this game so by the time I upgraded to swordsmen, I was close to the tech for man-at-arms and then my cities switched to produce man-at-arms..

 

[Ordnael]

I am a stickler for perfect settling places, and except for Aberdeem I dislike all you settling choicesfor your initial cities. No fresh water on you capital for the forceable future is a big no no for me, I could stomach settling a tile away from fresh water but your choices are hurting my soul.
Good luck!

 

[Planktonic]

Thanks. That is good advice. To be clear, I usually don't wait until crossbows and man-at-arms to go a war. I normally rush with archers and swordsmen. I think I just got iron late in this game so by the time I upgraded to swordsmen, I was close to the tech for man-at-arms and then my cities switched to produce man-at-arms..

Why swordsman rush? You had horses readily available. Horseman rush against unwalled foes is imo vastly quicker and easier to arrange.

It has been a fun thread watching you sort things out. You seem to be having fun developing your empire, but an honest question: do you care about achieving a victory condition? I ask because you're at least 100 turns away from science victory at this rate; you only have 13 tourism so no culture victory; you're almost fully converted to Ethiopia's religion so no religious victory; you only have one other capital at turn 246 so obviously not domination victory. I guess Diplo victory is really the only viable option unless you change gears dramatically, but gets tricky as you get closer, and your science and culture won't get you to Seasteds or Global Warming Mitigation any time soon.... Plus I don't see Potala or Statue anywhere- you may not have gotten to them yet. Can you even build Mahabodhi if you didn't found a religion?

Curious as to when do you think will achieve Diplo victory ? (turn count) Or is that not even part of your thinking, just the fun of empire building?

 

[SupremacyKing2]

Why swordsman rush? You had horses readily available. Horseman rush against unwalled foes is imo vastly quicker and easier to arrange.

I could not get the horses in time. The Ottoman AI settled too close.

It has been a fun thread watching you sort things out. You seem to be having fun developing your empire, but an honest question: do you care about achieving a victory condition? I ask because you're at least 100 turns away from science victory at this rate; you only have 13 tourism so no culture victory; you're almost fully converted to Ethiopia's religion so no religious victory; you only have one other capital at turn 246 so obviously not domination victory. I guess Diplo victory is really the only viable option unless you change gears dramatically, but gets tricky as you get closer, and your science and culture won't get you to Seasteds or Global Warming Mitigation any time soon.... Plus I don't see Potala or Statue anywhere- you may not have gotten to them yet. Can you even build Mahabodhi if you didn't found a religion?

Curious as to when do you think will achieve Diplo victory ? (turn count) Or is that not even part of your thinking, just the fun of empire building?

Yes, I care about a victory. I decided to go for a diplo victory. I did get the statue of liberty built. I also got the wonder that gives you +1 diplo points and +100% favor. I am around turn 315 now and I am close to a diplo victory.



I should also point out that this my first game as Robert. He's not really my favorite playing style. I am just trying something different.

 

[UWHabs]

I am a stickler for perfect settling places, and except for Aberdeem I dislike all you settling choicesfor your initial cities. No fresh water on you capital for the forceable future is a big no no for me, I could stomach settling a tile away from fresh water but your choices are hurting my soul.
Good luck!

I actually don't mind the settling locations. The capital I don't like to wander forever, so I can live with an ocean start. Everything else except for Cullen I think is on freshwater. Dundee is probably the weakest city - that's a city that I would rather back-fill later and is a pretty useless one to settle as one of the early spots.

I don't like the diplo quarter (?) next to the Chocolate hills. That either needs to be a +4 holy site, or a rare preserve (although it's an expensive price just to make 2 tiles workable, so I would lean Holy Site there and just live with the Chocolate Hills being terrible tiles for the whole game).

Other small things - I see in the first picture there's 3 farms by Stirling, but only one of the Mercury is mined. Early game you really want those luxuries online to sell to the AI. Don't just treat each mine as +1 production, treat it as +1 production and the like +12 gold per turn you can sell it to the AI for. Yeah, not being on freshwater you might want a couple farms to let you grow, but selling one of those mercury tiles will give you almost enough gold to buy a granary, which gives you more housing than those farms do.

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

Thanks. The spot you indicated below the horse has a loyalty penalty of -12. So it might be tricky to hold. With a governor, garrisoned unit and monument, I guess I would be ok as long as I don't fall into a dark age. And if I take Bursa, I would be fine.

Loyalty is not an issue if you play it correctly.
Magnus is usually the best bet here, because once he gets established after 5 turns, you can (and should) chop out wheat/cattle/fish/jungle to get immediate food to raise your loyalty as your population rises.
It's one of the best ways to raise loyalty quickly, whereas a Monument is one of the worst (costs a ton of production in terms of turns, a lot of gold, and only raises loyalty by 1).

Sometimes, when you know you want to go to war it can be worthwhile to build an entertainment complex in a high population city near their cities. Then you can run bread and circuses after you take a city.

It would have to be an extreme case for that to even be a good idea.
You're essentially wasting a district slot for the ability to run bread and circuses near a newly captured city, whereas if you properly plan out the conquest of a city, it will usually never be a problem to hold it in the first place.
Heck, in the case where you cannot hold onto it, you can even just let it flip neutral while you move on to bigger cities, and just recapture it later.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

Grinded out a Science Victory on Turn 422. Painful! I tried to go for a diplo victory but the AI kept voting against me so it did not work.