What did I do wrong (your insolence has cost you your empire.. muahahaa)

[xThomas]

I don't get to hear that one much, but this game was a struggle from the start. I decided to use some sort of tech turtle strat, and named my race "Turtles", green psilons. My ultimate plan was to have superior computers, ion pulse cannons with high energy focus with battle scanners, and have only one or two systems.
Demo government, arti hw, aqua, cash. took -defense, -ground, repulsive

From turn 0, huge galaxy, average age, pre warp, impossible. 8 players. My location is on the right side, in the middle, towards the center of the galaxy.
My initial steps were to keep only 1 guy on industry stocking the production on colony base, not to actually build - the minimum on food, everybody else I would put on science: Made a beeline for auto factories and moved the worker into science once it was built, and went for research labs. After that I went for bios and soil enrichment. It was pretty easy to buy buildings at half price. This is where it gets hazy. I took Augmented engines, IPC, battle scanners, and duet fuel cells. and space academies
Around turn 100, I met the Sakkra. I saw they had many worlds. I conquered one, bringing my total to 2 worlds (and it wasn't a very good world at that). Oh, but I did upgrade it. From here on out I faced a battleship or few destroyers every time I left the conquered world alone, and spies from gnolams (and later mrrshans) terrorized me. Gnolams also sent a battleship twice and some destroyers, but they weren't a constant nuiscance like the Sakkra.
That was my first and last conquest. I destroyed a Sakkra base, couldn't invade it successfully due to +5 vs w.e they had. Pretty hazy, but I only lasted 202 turns. After that I used ion pulse cannons with battle scanners, got anti matter drive, cybertronic comp round turn 140 or 160. Got energy focused AF ion cannons along with cyber comps, attempted to wage war, and all of a sudden mrrshans 1 turn away from HW. I fight them there, they have 160 beam defence! about equal to my ships attack. Suddenly I'm barely scratching the shield (and not cause its a good shield, I just can't hit them!). Out of 1 cruiser, 2 destroyers, 1 scout vs their 3 destroyers, 1 scout, I lose bad (I barely took one destroyer with me ). The whole Mrrshan war didn't even last 5 turns before I lost, it was a surprise to see them coming, it was a surprise to see my attacks barely scratched them, and it was a surprise to lose all my techs to espionage.
I'm not really sure where my mistake was. or were, as the case may be.

Tips and tricks what to do next game would be helpful, thanks. Also on custom races.

I lost to Fusion Beams! Fusion Beams with focus are still fusion beams!

 

[Incanur]

I haven't tried to use ion pulse cannons in forever. Doing so against shielded Mrrshan destroyers sounds difficult. I always get terrorized by spies when I play democracy. That comes with the territory. MoO II depends so much starting position. Sometimes - in a huge map - you've got quarter of the galaxy to yourself, other times the enemy comes for you before turn 100.

 

[neilkaz]

xThomas, your race is fine for a tech/cash race but it sounds to me like you turtled too much. It also sounds like your ships weren't good enough to take on the Cats at the time you did. What did you have for armor? Any reinforced hull or heavy armor?

I'm on my 2nd game with your race and settings and things while they can be challanging at times are going well.

At the start I sell the barracks inspite of having a big income since I won't likely ever need a rax on this HW so I get 30BC and save 1 BC/t. Then and inspite of this being a research race it is slightly better (based on my DemoLith tests and analysis) to go for Labs before factories. Do your best to have them half built so they can be bought effiently. Then colonize the rest of your system, researching freighters along the way with that free 5RP/t from the lab and then nuclear drive so you can get a scout(s) out while researching colony ships. You want to colonize a couple more systems quickly.

Of course on the new colony(s) your income should be sufficient to buy the factory and then lab when half built and then you can pop 1 house or research and work on a S.B slowly.

I'm curious as to why with battle scanners and a +100 comp, you couldn't hit the Cat's ships? What did he have for beam defense beside the obvious good crews from warload. Anyhow, I'll likely use missiles vs Mrrshans.

Did you start the war with the Sakkra or did they? It sounds to me like you were too weak early on and then the Gnols also decided to jump on the bandwagon and attack.

My last game showed the spying difficulties that you can have as a democracy and also showed how a tech hungry Psilon can spy. I had some troubles with spies all game and got every spy tech I could except for Cyber Security (must have EMG for defense and Orion) and stole Cyber Security later and in the game's last phases, the Psilon had the game max 63 spies on me with my 63 defensive spies and I was losing a tech every dozen turns or so !! His spy rating would be +10 to me (unless enhanced by a leader). Finally a telepath leader showed up to bloster my agents somewhat and he then quit heavy duty spying.

.. neilkaz ..

 

[xThomas]

I had trit armor. Reinforced hull I'm sure, I rarely miss that since I always get factories. Cyber comp, mb emg mb not, high energy focus, auto fire ion pulse cannons.
But my ships, as best as I remember: AF Ion, Battle scanner, cyber comp, a few lasers for starbases, and high energy focus. Also had anti matter drive, but that got stolen REALLY fast.

The Gnols struck first. The Mrrshans struck first. The Sakkra was probably me striking as soon as I felt my ships were superior. If I'd been tele, maybe I'd have had success. But I didn't. They had numbers though after that first world, and the new system was a huge drain on my resources (I really shoulda let it die)
Thx for trying my race, I'll try the early expansion first: This way I get lots more money and exponential returns later And you make it seamless when you do everything, nice. Got a new race I made at the moment, UniProd+2RhwAquaLg even with pollution, i think can start with just a bit more prod than a unitol, was able to [slash]get[/slash] buy CB1 at 3 turns and CB2 at 9 turns. Unfortunately, I settled the 6 pop UPoor barren and 4 pop Poor Desert.. without freighters and in that order - pretty crappy system but I get 4 and 5 prod just to start from both which is pretty good. I might end up doing a new game, but I'll try finishing this one first (IF I autosaved!). Should I just throw both into research hardcore? It's prewarp start, organic rich, huge, 8p, turn 9 or 10. I'm going freighters first with all my dudes. I'm definitely NOT the kind of person who can leverage getting a CB on turn 3 instead of 4

About the Mrrshans, he had 160 beam defense on those destroyers and probably took +25 beam def, and im sure some were elite: I've seem them have both too many times to count. I had Auto Firing Ion Pulse cannons; they had class I shields but way too good defence. the auto fire mod was what doomed me, in tandem with the shields absorbing the unlucky shot. Rather ironic, then, that the auto fire mod is what makes me so powerful against practically anything else (I killed the gaurdian with them for fun. Class V shields suck! lol). thats right, i think the mrrshans stole my anti matter drive.

 

[neilkaz]

xThomas....

I just finished two more games with your DemoAquaCash race and they went more easily than the first and were basically stompfests, although certainly not as quick with a production race or telepathic. In game 2, I was in the upper rght corner and had some good planets around and once I conquered the Coid's 10 systems the game was effectively over as I could breed their tolerant and subterranean goodness. Orion was near them, so I used the Avenger to help romp and stomp. Once again, lots of spies are needed on defense and you need spy techs. I had to forgo Heightened Intelligence to get Psionics and take Stealth Suit rather than Personel Shield

Game 3, I was also in the upper right corner and nearly systems weren't so good and lotsa LG. Hmmm...yet Psilons to my left and as usual these tech-mongers spy bigtime on anyone with good research and techs that they can steal. This couldn't be tolerated so I quickly took their two systems and then their scientists extra research was magnified by my Demo. I then just built up the upper and made lots of spies and spy techs to defend against Darlok spies and also stole a few things from other races including U-cells which helped me find Orion. I then killed the Guardian with EMG Mercs as usual (that is the only spy tech I usually pass on with a Demo race). Then it was stomp the Darloks and ownage.

By making lots of spies, I mean LOTS as you can afford it. Many of my planets while having most guys researching were set to make spies using the production from production buildings. In game 3 I had over 100 spies. You can only have 63 in one place. One way to get the enemy to back off from big spying efforts is to put some spies on him and then check and see if most or all of his have gone home. Of course as Repulsive you can't demand that he stop spying.

 

[neilkaz]

Your UniAquaProd+2LRHW race may be the best of all the pure production (non-tele) races. As long as you get some wet planets nearby and hopefully one in your home system, I think it may be better than UniTol although more micro is required to play it well.

Yes, sell SB and then MB and have all 6 workers on that CB and buy it after 3 turns. Then DON'T raise taxes as you tax your production and make saving the 100+ production so you can buy the 2nd CB half built take longer. You'll eaisly buy that 2nd CB on turn 7 and then can research Frieghters (this is better than building a 3rd CB assuming you have that very lucky system with 3 planets to colonize). I've tested all this with UniTol and it is best to build 2 CB's asap and then frieghters.

You can't starve below a population of 1, and with the new colonies set to build housing, and due to the huge production bonuses they are growing well anyhow.

After freighters and soon needing a 3rd farmer on the HW, you research Labs, then factories and then what you need to get a scout(s) out and start colonizing and rock the galaxy.

I pop-1 house on the new colonies until I can build a lab when I'll put another worker or two there to speed the process. Same thing until I can build my factory and then it is back to pop-1 housing to fill up my HW.

 

[xThomas]

I have two games going with this race. I'm not sure how the first is going, but the second i tried to win the council vote without firing a shot "Walk softly, but carry a big stick". 2 votes short the first time, 12 the second, and then war! Fail lol. Doesn't really matter, Even the largest AI empire is only half mine.. probably a quarter since they don't colonize every planet in sight. First worry is the Alkari have heavy armor zort and took my best eastern system before I got emg, but I can amass a RIDICULOUS number of ships. Second worry is that everyone else will jump on the bandwagon. There's actually a third problem, and that's the fact that 4/5 of my planets are crap. Even my home system was crap. Still, I think 180 turns without war is a new record, and I'll be very happy to take those rich terran and artifact planets in exchange.