What do I do from here?

[Phatshady912]

I just started playing a few days ago, and I've worked my way up to noble. Reading these boards and playing a OCC really helped me to figure out how to run an economy, but I have never really fought much before. I heard that praetoreans were good units so I decided to try out Augustus and go to town on the AI.

I spawned right next to Montezuma so(once again from reading here) I knew I should kill him before he goes for me. I got some praes and rolled im pretty easily, but by then I was behind in tech and score compared to Mansa.

I decided to try and take a few cities from Mansa and extort some techs out of him for peace, to catch up. I managed to take one city with a stack of a few praes/axes/chariots/spears, but after that he had longbows and horse archers defending his cities and I couldn't touch anymore of them.

I am still behind in tech and now I have a city from Mansa that will most likely get culture flipped.... I'm pretty lost on what to do next.

1. Make peace, work on infrastructure and surpass everyone else (I have 30%ish land and pop, compared to 2nd place at 15%)

2. Use my stack to pillage all of Mansa's improvements while I mass up catas to try and take him out.

3. Make peace with Mansa then attack one of the weaker civs like France, and take all of their land, which should get me up to around 40%/40%

This is my first Normal game on noble, I have won 2 other noble games, but 1 was a OCC and anoter was a Culture victory where you could only have 3 cities (it was a scenario I downloaded here).

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[henrebotha]

I can't open Beyond the Sword saves (and I'm browsing on a cellphone anyway), but it sounds to me like your land is horribly underdeveloped. Do you have enough Workers?

 

[Phatshady912]

No I don't have enough workers, I did.. but mansa and some barbs took out 3 of them while I was focusing on war.... I know I definitely need to cottage up my coastal city in the south, and work on bulding infrastructure in my newer cities, that was option 1. If I decide to mass catas and take out mansa though, I wo't be bilding workers because I want those catas asap, still deciding what to go with.

 

[Sian]

did you bring enough siege? ... (not that you can ever bring to much)

 

[Fluxx]

30% land coverage is a surely won game. If you only focus on infrastructure and developing your land, you will win easily in the long run.

 

[Phatshady912]

did you bring enough siege? ... (not that you can ever bring to much)

I didn't bring any siege, thats why I'm asking if I should try a 2nd push with siege, or not

My frst attack was before I even could build siege.

 

[nullspace]

Looking at the save, you're doing very well. Your empire is the biggest by far, you have the highest power rating, your in a good position in diplomacy, and your current tech level and economy are good. From here you should be able to win any way you choose. The only way you could lose is if you let Darius win by space race. He has a tech lead now and a very strong economy, but if you build up your current land then your economy will be much larger than his and you'd eventually overtake him. Or you could prepare an attack on him any time between now and when he reaches alpha centauri.

Continuing to war against Mansa's well-defended cities certainly isn't profitable. Agaisnt longbows and cultural defense, you really need catapults, and trebuchets would be better. De Gualle and Sitting Bull are easier targets, but they're no threat to you and if you want more cities there are at least three good places to settle along the southern coast. It might be nice to conquer De Gualle's source of stone, though.

Building up your economy now is the surest strategy to win the game. Train more workers, at least one per city, to make more terrain improvements, especially cottages. Those workers and settling a few more good cities are more important for your long-term growth than buildings right now. But d start to think about how to specialize your cities. Antium is great for commerce (if you grow the population more), Tenochtitlan looks like your best city for production, and Teotihuacan is good for a great people farm. Get Literature so you can build the national wonders that go with these specializations. It looks like you're going for liberalism, but Darius might get it first because he already has paper and philosophy. It's not too important because you wouldn't be able to trade the free tech for much: Mansa hates you, your friends have no techs to offer, and you don't want Darius to profit from a trade with you. All in all, your big economy will eventually dwarf Darius's, and you'll inevitably win.

On the other hand, if you want a riskier strategy for the earliest win date possible, you could research engineering and conquer all the easy targets (avoid Darius) with trebuchets and praetorians.

 

[Ghpstage]

I didn't bring any siege, thats why I'm asking if I should try a 2nd push with siege, or not

I think Mansa is too far away from your capital to be the second target anyway.
I would have gone after the French, they are hoplessley backwards (no longbows!) and are very close to your core cities. Although in your case land development is more important than killing people right now!

My frst attack was before I even could build siege.

This is common with swords or axes, for Praetorians its a reasonable strategy even after catapults until AIs get longbows.

Make peace, work on infrastructure and surpass everyone else (I have 30%ish land and pop, compared to 2nd place at 15%)

This is what I would do in your position,
First make peace, it will take ages to get enough catapults to Mansa's cities to kill him.
Build lots of workers and start improving (mainly cottages) your land.
Then settle some of the unclaimed land near your empire, theres room for at least 5 more cities!
Build basic city infrastructure (granaries, libraries, forges, markets)
Once the workers have a handle on things and your land is developing well, then and only then go for more units and squash the French, followed by Sitting Bull. Make sure to have enough workers to get captured cities up to scratch quickly!
After your then captured cities borders start expanding, you will likely have enough to get a domination victory. If not, your going to have it easier against Isabella or Mansa due to enormous production advantages.

In short Develop. Destoy. Develop. Destroy.

 

[IthacaMike]

If this were my game I would...

Make peace. You are now facing Longbows and you don't have enough Catapults (or Spies). I would use the peace to develope my infrastrucure (especially Courthouses) and plant at least three more cities.

Get some culture in Gao. I would use what workers I have to chop rush (and the pop rush) Monastaries and then Temples in Gao. I think Goa can be saved from the culture flip.

Close my borders. There are two prime city sites that anyone can claim, one SW of Gao in the desert has three resources and one S of Tlatelolco also in the desert has two Gold and Rice. I would get upset if one of the AI's walked a Settler accross my empire and grabbed the Cities.

The third prime city is SW of Rome with Horses and two Fish. It also has a couple of forested hills. This would make a dandy place to build the Moai Statues.

You currently have 8 cities and I recommend you build at least 3 more. You only have 4 Workers, so build more workers. My rule of thumb is one Worker per city. You need more cottages. Also some of your cities need irrigation to allow them to work all of their mines.

You need at least 3 more Courthouses for the Forbidden Palace. In Goa maybe?

Spread Judism. If you are lucky the Pscho Witch of Spain will build the Apostolic Palace and you will be the leader. You will be building cities, defenders, Praets, and Catapults for round two against Mansa Mursa. If you go after the small fry, think about Vassles.

Tech Trades. Paper is already in play and you can get Feudalism from Izzy for it. You can get Horseback Riding for cash (if you have enough). I'd also trade for Maps. If you can't get a Map from Mansa you will probably need Spies to scout out his lands.

Spies are also useful during wars by setting off a city revolt to remove the the defensive bonus. You still need Catapults, just not as many and it can be quicker.

Let us know how it turns out.

IthacaMike

 

[IthacaMike]

If this were my game I would...

Make peace. You are now facing Longbows and you don't have enough Catapults (or Spies). I would use the peace to develope my infrastrucure (especially Courthouses) and plant at least three more cities.

Get some culture in Gao. I would use what workers I have to chop rush (and the pop rush) Monastaries and then Temples in Gao. I think Goa can be saved from the culture flip.

Close my borders. There are two prime city sites that anyone can claim, one SW of Gao in the desert has three resources and one S of Tlatelolco also in the desert has two Gold and Rice. I would get upset if one of the AI's walked a Settler accross my empire and grabbed the Cities.

The third prime city is SW of Rome with Horses and two Fish. It also has a couple of forested hills. This would make a dandy place to build the Moai Statues.

You currently have 8 cities and I recommend you build at least 3 more. You only have 4 Workers, so build more workers. My rule of thumb is one Worker per city. You need more cottages. Also some of your cities need irrigation to allow them to work all of their mines.

You need at least 3 more Courthouses for the Forbidden Palace. In Goa maybe?

Spread Judism. If you are lucky the Pscho Witch of Spain will build the Apostolic Palace and you will be the leader. You will be building cities, defenders, Praets, and Catapults for round two against Mansa Mursa. If you go after the small fry, think about Vassles.

Tech Trades. Paper is already in play and you can get Feudalism from Izzy for it. You can get Horseback Riding for cash (if you have enough). I'd also trade for Maps. If you can't get a Map from Mansa you will probably need Spies to scout out his lands.

Spies are also useful during wars by setting off a city revolt to remove the the defensive bonus. You still need Catapults, just not as many and it can be quicker.

Let us know how it turns out.

IthacaMike

 

[StrategeryBush]

I have not opened the save; however, if you are worried about Goa culture flipping, I believe that keeping at least 5 military units there as a garrison will prevent that occurrence. It won't prevent the occasional revolt, until you get your own culture there to be dominant, but you won't lose the city. If I am wrong in this I am sure that someone will correct me. I hope so, as I count on this ploy quite a bit.

 

[the reverend]

I have not opened the save; however, if you are worried about Goa culture flipping, I believe that keeping at least 5 military units there as a garrison will prevent that occurrence. It won't prevent the occasional revolt, until you get your own culture there to be dominant, but you won't lose the city. If I am wrong in this I am sure that someone will correct me. I hope so, as I count on this ploy quite a bit.

IIRC, a city that you have captured from one of your opponents cannot culture flip back to that opponent. I'm not certain about that, but I believe it's true. As StrategeryBush said, putting enough units in the city will not only prevent the city from flipping, but will also prevent the city from revolting in the first place.

 

[Phatshady912]

Decided to make nice with Mansa, and improve all my tiles. I also built 1 more city to the south, on the gold and rice.

From that point on just did my best to work on my economy, won the liberalism race. I got up to about 600 bpt while teching rifling. Once I hit rifling I was going to take out Mansa with Rifles + Cannons, but I saw that he was already close to Grenadiers, so I decided to delay till Infantry.

I lowered my science slider till I was getting about 300 gpt and 400 bpt, and started pumping our Rifles and Cannons in most of my cities while teching to Assembly line.

Hit Assembly Line and upgraded about 30 Rifles to Infantry, then kept pumping out Cannons and mixed in Cavalry, while declaring war on Mansa, and teching to Artillery.

Completely decimated Mansa, Issabella decided to vassalize to me of her own free will.

Sitting Bull took one of Mansa cities, and I didn't like that... so I declared on him and took it, even though he was at pleased and my war ally vs Mansa lol.

Sitting Bull was weak so I ignored him and went after Darius, who after all of my warring had a pretty big tech lead, but way too little land and army.

Took 2 of Darius' cities and made him into a vassel.

Took 3 of sitting bull's cities and made him into a vassel, Game Over.

All in all it was a pretty huge slaughter, it was pretty easy for my first noble game, also my first domination victory.

I ended up with A score of 49927 and a ranking of Caesar Augustus... ironically enough.