What do we really want for a good 4x space game?

[Zed-F]

Ray, if you haven't given SotS a glance, you might want to consider looking at it for good ideas. It's a lot closer to a spiritual successor to MOO1 than GalCiv is. SotS maintains the philosophy that micromanagement is bad for the most part, and aims for relatively deep gameplay while still keeping streamlined interfaces, and for the most part succeeds. Pretty much everything on your list is there. The main exception is that they did go for 3D tactical combat, ala Total War series, but it's done well and adds a lot to the game IMHO.

It's true that on its initial release it was over-simplified, but it's had 2 expansions since then, and those expansions haven't just added new content, they've added new sophistication and depth to the original content, for the most part without adding too much micromanagement (and most of the things that add significant micro are optional.) The AI is pretty solid these days too, as AIs go. The developers have been very diligent about improving gameplay.

 

[vmxa]

My take on random events, is I don't like them. I think that is due to how it is done in most games. They are quite arbitrary. They tend to hit the human more than not. They happen too often in a game.

If you had say 2 or 3 for the entire game and only a very rare event would be critical, that would be my preference. Super nova or radiate planet or planet goes poor, should not be seen in every game.

Minor things that are either good or bad are interesting and can add flavor, IF the pool of events is large. Wealth donor, nice no game breaker, some loss of research no game breaker.

What I did not like is that you can get many of these events and once you are the top dog most will happen to you.

I think it would be good if most events could be countered. That is you could fix the damage at some reasonable cost. Of course the ability to turn them off is needed. In Moo1 after all this time, I do not have any interest in seeing a space monster or pirates or any of it.

 

[Zed-F]

One nice thing about SotS in that regard is you can control the frequency at which most of them occur at game setup time. Most random encounters are controlled by a slider that says how often they occur, which you can tune from 0% to 200% of baseline rate. Certain large menaces (like amoebas/crystals in MOO) only show up later in the game and even then only if the game universe is large enough. Even if you do have randoms enabled in the game, you can do stuff in-game to minimize the number of times you have to deal with them; randoms tend to show up only when you're not fighting battles with other empires.

 

[kyrub]

My take on random events, is I don't like them. I think that is due to how it is done in most games. They are quite arbitrary. They tend to hit the human more than not. They happen too often in a game.
If you had say 2 or 3 for the entire game and only a very rare event would be critical, that would be my preference. Super nova or radiate planet or planet goes poor, should not be seen in every game.
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Super nova or radiate planet or planet goes poor, should not be seen in every game.
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In Moo1 after all this time, I do not have any interest in seeing a space monster or pirates or any of it.

The Moo I events' debate is quite intriguing for me, but the opinions tend to differ. Maybe you are right, they have become more annoyance than enjoyment, which would be hardly surprising after 15 years. (I wonder how will Sots do after 5 years.)

You say, vmxa, that you dislike the game-breaking events, not counterable. Minors are good, that is agreed and simple. - But the vast majority of Moo events do not fall into game-breaking category, no? Yes, the radiated planet. Arrrrgh!! But the pirates do not even deserve mention in this regard. And, surely, the cure, the comet, the super-nova etc. etc. can be countered easily when you have large enough reserve. Which is a good rule of thumb to have, anyway.

For me, these events maybe tend to happen too early - this is what can really make or break my game. A depleted central planet in the early stages is like a knock-out in the first round. If it happens to te opponent, it is a game-over (and a fun-over) as well.

I find some of the events cool, even after all these years. The assasination is a great one. And the science booster (forgot the name) is solid as well, it may give the late game a new, intriguing boost.

What I dislike is the lack of variety. The text is different, the effect the same. Most of the time, you just boost the reserve, and have to micro-manage for 10 turns. Stupid, very unfit to the clever design of Moo.
What if the disease spreaded to other planets? What if you could not communicate for 10-20 years because of some ionizating supernova blast (pardon my scientific inadequacy)? What if a chameleon-esque monster ripped off some new random accessory (HEF, anti-missile, zyro shield etc.) every next time it attacks? And the pirates could join the week enemy, if not countered early...

That is what makes random events fun, it changes the year-to-year steady clicking of the 'next turn'.

 

[Ray F]

The Moo I events' debate is quite intriguing for me, but the opinions tend to differ. Maybe you are right, they have become more annoyance than enjoyment, which would be hardly surprising after 15 years. (I wonder how will Sots do after 5 years.)

When I am talking about unexpected events in the game, I am not referring to the simple events that look like they were designed by a spreadsheet... i.e. "A donor gives you 57 BC", or something that is handled by spending a little reserve so that it's more of a tax than an actual event.

I am talking about events that affect the flow of power in the game. These are significant events, but still give the player room to exploit them for his own purposes. In a way, the random map generation is the first "event" that the player deals with in every game.

Golden ages are a good example. Are they random events, or totally unexpected? No, but at the same time you won't be able to predict precisely when they'll happen, and for whom. When a player gets one, he will be able to exploit it with the proper speech. If another race gets one.. well, that's just being fair.

I want to get away from elements in the game that reduce too easily to simple numbers. You know what I mean: humans = +20% diplomacy, psilons = +20% research, klackons = +20% production.. otherwise, they are basically the same.

 

[Zed-F]

I think you'd like the races in SotS then. They all have a distinct feel and character to them that does not reduce to a simple bonus in one area. It starts with distinct engine types and modes of movement for each race, certainly, but it doesn't end there. Each race has a whole suite of little quirks to them that impact the game across a broad range of areas.

As far as the events in SotS go, they mostly tend to be of the hostile variety, i.e. the kind you can shoot at. They impact the game by what areas they deny access to until they are cleared, sometimes aggressively so (i.e. some of them can spawn new copies of themselves and spread over a portion of the map, including already colonized worlds.)

 

[neutrino]

My take on random events, is I don't like them. I think that is due to how it is done in most games. They are quite arbitrary. They tend to hit the human more than not. They happen too often in a game.

If you had say 2 or 3 for the entire game and only a very rare event would be critical, that would be my preference. Super nova or radiate planet or planet goes poor, should not be seen in every game.

I was thinking about a different system of generating random events. Instead of relying on rolling dice, have a 'managed randomized system'. For example, each player is allocated a small deck of cards, containing an event per card. It is randomized in that it is shuffled, then handed out to each player with faces down. Players are allowed to discard-pool-draw event cards, but they may not reveal what they have to others. If you want to incorporate a larger set of random events, increase the number of cards allocated to each player. If not, then reduce the number of cards instead. Each card can be used on another player, but only one card can be used per X number of turns.