What effects the Armageddon Counter?

[Onac Proudmoore]

I am well aware of the fact that there are many things in the game which effect the AC, such as founding certain religions, eliminating cities and civilizations, bulding certain units, wonders, etc.

However, I started to wonder if there is a complete list of what raises and what lowers the AC. Sometimes when I try to influence AC, I just happen to run out of easy ideas. A complete list to look for ideas would be really helpful in these times.

So, does anyone know about a list like this? And if yes, where can we find it?

 

[xalien]

Try http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=332241

 

[Pickly]

I don't know where a list could be found, though I'm sure some sort of list exists somewhere. Here's most of what I've noticed so far (which hopefully covers just about anything you could do.)

Increases:
-Razing a city: +1
-Ashen Veil in city: +1
-Founding Ashen Veil: 3-5ish (I don't remember the exact number)
-Stigmata of the Unborn (Ashen Veil shrine) built: Adds some extr, I don't remember the exact number
-Infernals enter world (with the infernal pact advance): +3-5ish
-Prophecy of Ragnarok: +1 per unit built in the city with it
-Rosier the Fallen, Meshaber of Dis, Mardero: All of these heros increase the counter. I don't remember the exact numbers, but most likely +2, maybe +3
-Eidolon: +1
-Elegy of the Sheaim: +5
-Pillar of chains, some other wonders: +2-4ish depending on wonder

Some random events increase the counter as well


Decreases:
-Whenever any unit that increases the counter is killed (heroes, prophecy mark from Ragnarok)
-Sanctifying (lie 1 spell) city ruins
-Razing an Ashen Veil city (It may be possible to get a net lowering of the counter by razing an ashen veil city, than sanctifying the ruins, though I've never really checked this well)
-Razing the Ashen Veil holy city: Provides a greater decrease
-Hallowing of the Elohim: -5
-Elimination of the Infernals: I have a feeling that it's actually Hyborem existing the raises the counter, not the infernal civilization, so killing the hero is all the is needed. Either way, fighting the Infernals can reduce the counter
-Some order heroes will reduce the counter (Perhaps all of them)

There's probably a few wonders or units that I've forgotten


For deliberately pushing up the counter, using Prophecy of Ragnarok and spreading ashen veil around will likely get the most increase, though everything helps. Also keep in mind that changes are modified based on the map size and the amount of civilizations.

 

[Onac Proudmoore]

Thanks for the quick answers.

xalien: This list is great and should be useful. It's not complete, though. Even Pickly's post contains some things which are missing from it.
It's also unclear for me at some part, for example I am not quite sure what "Iron orb +2/-1" means.

Pickly: Actually, according to my experiences the AC decreases if you destroy any evil civilization (and it goes up if you destroy a good one), but maybe if you destroy the Infernals than it decreases more.

And many thanks to both of you again, these should be quite helpful for me now. I doubt that there would be many things missing.

 

[xalien]

It's also unclear for me at some part, for example I am not quite sure what "Iron orb +2/-1" means.

It means that the event offers multiple choices with different impact on AC.

Destroying civs doesn't have any effect on AC, it's the city razing that does it, razing large cities will increase it more than small ones, razing cities with AV will always decrease it by 1. So if you want high AC you should actually refrain from spreading AV as you'll lose the juicy razing bonus.

 

[Onac Proudmoore]

Destroying civs doesn't have any effect on AC

Are you sure of that? In my most recent playthrough, I can remember that when I destroyed the Balseraphs there was a decrease in AC. They had the AV as religion, but I didn't raze any of their cities.

 

[Zechnophobe]

Considering the sheer number of things that COULD happen to lower AC, is was most likely just a coincidence that it went down. Was their last unit prophecy marked, or an AV hero? Did something somewhere else occur at the same turn? Heck, if any prophecy marked belseraphs existed on the map ANYwhere, it would have caused this as they'd die when the civ was removed. Just some food for thought there.

 

[DaveGold]

Destroying civs doesn't have any effect on AC

When you eliminate a unit such as an Eidolon you remove its contribution to the AC. This could happen when a nation's units are cleared out after the nation is destroyed.

 

[Pickly]

I do think inquisitioning Ashen Veil out of a city might reduce the counter, though don't know for sure.

 

[Onac Proudmoore]

Well, I don't know. They surely didn't have units with Prophecy Mark, because it was I, in that game, who built the Prophecy of Ragnarok. Their last unit was an AV disciple, though... could be that.
But I am not sure. The AC went down a lot, like it was 42 before and 39 after. A single unit dying doesn't lower the AC so much, I think.
I am unsure about other things happening at the same turn, though.

Next time, something like this happens, I guess, I'll pay more attention to this.

 

[Zechnophobe]

Well, I don't know. They surely didn't have units with Prophecy Mark, because it was I, in that game, who built the Prophecy of Ragnarok. Their last unit was an AV disciple, though... could be that.
But I am not sure. The AC went down a lot, like it was 42 before and 39 after. A single unit dying doesn't lower the AC so much, I think.
I am unsure about other things happening at the same turn, though.

Next time, something like this happens, I guess, I'll pay more attention to this.

You use any of those Marked units during that conquest perhaps?

 

[Emptiness]

Destroying civs doesn't have any effect on AC

Are you sure of that? In my most recent playthrough, I can remember that when I destroyed the Balseraphs there was a decrease in AC. They had the AV as religion, but I didn't raze any of their cities.

I just eliminated the Sheaim in my current game (AV has not been researched, so that's not a factor) and the AC did not change at all (9/146 before and after capturing their last city).

I think that the AC is affected when either the Mercurians or the Infernals are summoned or defeated, but I'm not certain.

I do think inquisitioning Ashen Veil out of a city might reduce the counter, though don't know for sure.

It does.

 

[Onac Proudmoore]

Well, I know this probably adds more to the confusion, but I've just found this in the Fall from Heaven manual.

Elimination of a Good Civilization adds 5 to AC, Elimination of an Evil Civilization subtracts 5

It's on page 217, in case anyone wants to check it.

 

[Emptiness]

Ahh, that's probably why...just before they were defeated they converted to RoK and so became Neutral.

 

[Onac Proudmoore]

Ahh, that's probably why...just before they were defeated they converted to RoK and so became Neutral.

Well then, that clears everything