What existing civ will benefit the most from BNW?

[N2dFuture]

I was curious what existing civilization (vanilla, DLC, G+K) people think will benefit the most from the new mechanics in Brave New World (trade routes, new cultural victory, World Congress, ideologies, etc.) and why? For the sake of this discussion, assume that none of the existing civilizations have any changes to them. (In other words, France is out of the discussion, since we know that they are being altered so that their cultural mechanics will fit the new game better.) I've included a poll with what I think are some obvious choices, but feel free to suggest others.

My choice is Sweden. They are already the quintessential diplomatic victory civ (better than Greece, IMO), and now with the World Congress they should be able to control many other game aspects than just going for the victory condition. More attention will need to be paid to managing city-state relations throughout the mid-game, but with careful management Sweden should be able to get some pretty sweet benefits.

 

[JSMCAG]

People have been throwing Polynesia around because of the World Congress - but other than being guaranteed to be the first host, there's not much of a bonus here. Extra culture from the Moai will help protect against Tourism.

Speaking of that, other civilizations with bonus to culture will benefit from extra protecting from Tourism, so that includes Polynesia, Aztecs, Siam, and Persia (of the top of my head).

Carthage receives a free Harbor in every city, which will probably be changed to have some bonus to naval trade routes - seeing as those will be essential for a healthy economy, I can see it doing very well...

Byzantium will have easier access to a Religion, since Piety can now be unlocked in the Ancient Era - and with the reformation Beliefs, they could have gained a major buff! Maya, with it's Pyramid UB, can also benefit from it, but I sense Lyberty is still the best for them...

Egypt could benefit from having extra production when contributing to World Congress' Projects like the ISS, but that seems about it...

England will have more choices in regards to their extra spy - maybe using one for a diplomat is not a bad idea...

And that is all I could mention off the top of my head, roughly through order of importance. Mainly, with culture output reduced, having more culture is great - same with gold (except Arabia, because their Bazaar will suffer with changes to lump sum gold trades, and +1 per City Connection won't be enough to counter that)!

 

[ehecatzin]

I've commented on this before, I think Polynesia will gain the most benefits from BNW, there's the obvious like founding the World Congress, but the reworked trade is also good for Polynesia as they will be able to set transcontinental trade routes before anyone else, they will also have a decent extra bonus for tourism with hotels and Moais. For Social policy trees, liberty, exploration, aesthetic and commerce.

I think they will be really fun to play and aim for a diplomatic or cultural victory.

 

[adwcta]

I think what gets overlooked is the lowered cost of social policies. Whereas before, the insanely high mid-late game costs made going wide unappealing, now you can go wide and still finish rationalism, and the newly buffed piety, or whatever your little heart desires. Huge flexibility here now.

Additionally, faith, which combos nicely with wide (both in output, and happiness), now drips into other civs/cities peacefully via trade routes, which means if your founding belief is based on population, you can save your faith, allowing you to use your faith for religious buildings (which get a relative boost in mid-game due to lowered cultured building bonuses), and eventually GPs (which wide empires had more trouble generating in the past).

This allows you to maintain better relations while going wide and while spreading religion, and throw up a very formidable culture defense without sacrificing much science (wider empire should make up for the faith focus in time). The flexibility of the World Congress resolutions means that it will pay to be flexible with regard to your win conditions both aggressively and passively (imagine being taxed 25% on standing army when you have a huge one, or if the runaway is gunning for science to be able to switch on the fly to culture and vote in a 25% bonus w/ 25% negative mod on science) depending on your world standing.

Given what I think the new environment will be (flexibility is super-important; happiness is easier to manage by mid-game; religion becomes easier to spread, but not convert), I think a civ like Austria (peaceful expansion), Celts (early faith; late happiness), Inca (very wide-friendly), India (population; wide-friendly for mid-late game), Maya (faith, early GP) or Byzantine (extra belief) would all benefit greatly.

On the flip side, I think it's obvious that all purely military civs get downgraded, since they now must abide by a world-congress, which will move swiftly to sanction you as soon as you start your second war, making things harder for you (and your few allies, if any). Plus, you need open borders to do international trade routes, which generate far more gold than domestic/CS ones (and to maintain an army, you need gold), and you no longer can effectively produce your own gold.

 

[meowschwitz]

Rome is getting a huge buff if you can properly manage internal trade routes to ensure that Rome is full of infrastructure and then able to send those routes back out to all the smaller cities. I could see them and Egypt being some of the few civs who really loves internal trade routes.

 

[NukeAJS]

Greece

Their ability to get 0 influence change with a CS was already overpowered. Now, those CSs that get 0 influence change a turn can be used both offensively and defensively with resolutions proposed. And if Greece is purposing those resolutions, that's double plus good.

 

[Calouste]

All the coastal civs are getting big buffs. The extra production on sea resources has moved from the Harbor to the Lighthouse, sea trade routes are very good and the Exploration tree is far better for them then the old Commerce tree. The only drawback is no more gold initially on sea tiles. For Polynesia add to that the tourism that the Maoi are going to create with a Hotel and better trade routes from early exploration, and I think they are the clear winner.

 

[Monthar]

This poll really needs to be multiple choice.

 

[wigwam]

Greece. Their UA was pretty lackluster in G&K, when it became so much easier to get and maintain CS alliances in the late game, but it's going to be top-shelf again in BNW. With the World Congress consistently being founded in the Renaissance (on any Pangaea map or any game with Polynesia, it'll be founded immediately at Printing Press), Greece is going to have a major advantage at the first few meetings, and I think that advantage will snowball in long-term diplomatic dominance.

Of course, I'm not counting on AI Alex to really take advantage.

 

[apocalypse105]

Obiously its france its now a verry flexible civ

There unique ability and improvement helps for a culture victory and helps against enemy tourisme. I thinx their unique AB and unit have the same strenght as Brazile UA for a culture victory


with the unique unit the musketeer you can still for a domination victory because its the strongest unit in the renaissance unitl rifleman. You can olso steal enemy great works with it. Expect napoleon AI beeing more anoying then normal

I've just conquered olmost my hole continent and steal all their great works now i've put them all in my capital for double theming bonusses and win.

 

[Moroten]

Weird options in this poll, few of those up there are getting any direct buffs with the new gameplay. Examples of civs getting buffed due to a shortage of money early game:

Songhai - Hunt those barbcamps.
America - Cheaper to buy your precious tile.

 

[IkM]

Greece

Their ability to get 0 influence change with a CS was already overpowered. Now, those CSs that get 0 influence change a turn can be used both offensively and defensively with resolutions proposed. And if Greece is purposing those resolutions, that's double plus good.

^This

 

[askia53]

I vote Carthage, because already they are encouraged to found coastal cities with the free harbor on every harbor that will set up the internal trade routes, and so they will also be a big player on the international trade route scene. Quinqueremes can also be a minor help in defending trade routes over the ocean.

 

[kingchris20]

Polynesia - The ability to cross ocean tiles from the start is a heavy benefit, and then the moai!

Honorable Mention:
Ottomans - If it is possible to capture naval trade routes (prize ships promotion), then the Ottomans could benefit pretty heavily from that.

 

[HottiePippen]

Naval civs in general should get a nice boost... it seems like building ships to protect and plunder naval trade routes will be a good investment even on Pangea now. In particular, I think civs that get a powerful navy running in the early ages will have a large commercial head start. The obvious civs that would benefit from this are Carthage (free harbors and a trireme upgrade), Byzantium (Dromons are actually going to be useful now), and the Ottomans.

I think playing the Ottomans will be a blast. Building their giant ancient era navies was already fun, but now you'll be able to go full "pirate king" on the rest of the world and plunder any trade routes you want. Byzantium also gets a religion boost with piety now being an early social policy option, meaning their UA and UU will both be more viable.

 

[Ulthwithian]

Well, I would like to throw my $0.02 in...

1) Polynesia: I am not sure if this is all that true, but it looks like Tourism will be very hard to come by. IIRC, the only ways we know how to get it are through Great Works and other stuff made by the GAs, Archaeology... and Hotels that convert UI (and a few other bonuses) culture into tourism.

Unless Chateaus are very powerful, Polynesia's moais will probably be the single easiest method of producing a large amount of Tourism. This would imply that on maps with lots of coast, Polynesia is a shoe-in for leading in the Culture race.

2) England. Finally, a use for faster naval units. They will probably be more Diplomacy-based, though, as their faster units will (on water maps) help them towards founding the WC, and also their extra Spy can be a Diplomat to help with it as well.

3) Carthage. Money is harder to come by, so free Harbors are going to be even more important.

 

[azzaman333]

From the sound of things, BNW will promote exploration, particularly intercontinental exploration. Hello Polynesia. Will they become top tier? Probably not, but they should go above some of the other stragglers like Denmark.

 

[ggmoyang]

With reformation, religions will become more powerful so civs that have huge bonus on getting one (Maya, Ethiopia) will get solid buff.

 

[Devell]

Given that England has +2 movement on anything in the water, do we expect this to transfer across to cargo ships? If so with the way trade routes are supposed to work this would mean Englands trade routes at sea could potentially provide more gold then any one else's.

EDIT: I don't think I thought that through. I was thinking that the 40 tile range would be extended to 42. Which seems minor even if it did. It's more likely gonna keep the 40 tile range providing the same gold as anyone else's trade routes. But English cargo ships will complete a run sooner? Which still amounts to them generating more gold? Can someone clear up how this will work for me please?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Given that England has +2 movement on anything in the water, do we expect this to transfer across to cargo ships? If so with the way trade routes are supposed to work this would mean Englands trade routes at sea could potentially provide more gold then any one else's.

The speed of the Trade Unit is irrelevant to the output of the Trade Route which produces gold, food, or production per turn. It is not a payout due to the arrival or return of the Trade Unit.