What is up with Civ 6?

[siredgar]

I was still playing Civ 5 until recently when all of a sudden my mods got all messed up. I suspect this might have been a move by Steam to get me to buy Civ 6, but that is the paranoid side of me talking.

Anyhow, I figured it's almost time to buy Civ 6. I see that it has been discounted and there's an expansion pack as well as a DLC bundle of six civs. I don't see a gold pack yet which was what I was hoping for.

So I was wondering if you could help me with some questions I have:

1. Do you expect a gold pack to come out anytime soon? By gold pack, I mean a pack that includes the expansion pack and all DLC for a single price.

2. What is the difference between Civ 6 and the deluxe digital edition? Why is Steam so stupid that they don't even provide an explanation of their products? I can only click on the "Add to Cart" button. There is no explanation. Does it include "Rise and Fall?" Does it have any DLC civs?

3. Do I have to buy Civ 6 and Rise and Fall separately? If so, why don't they sell them together?

4. What is up with Red Shell? Does it really collect your specific data like name, age, etc. from various devices, including your mobile phone? Or is it just collecting typical Big Data for market research?

5. And finally, how is the game after almost two years after first release? How are the bugs? Does it crash? Are you still enjoying the game? How good is game play compared to Civ 5?

Thanks!

 

[Leyrann]

1. I believe a gold pack typically only comes out after the last expansion, so that would probably take at least about a year longer.
2. Deluxe digital edition includes the DLCs, but not R&F.
3. If there's no option to buy the entire pack, probably yes. And they probably don't sell them together because that would cost them too much profits on R&F which was only released four and half a month ago.
4. I don't know, maybe someone else does.
5. There's some bugs, but not gamebreaking, I personally don't think I've ever had it crash. Would be enjoying the game if there weren't so many other things I'm doing. Certainly miles better than unmodded Civ 5 with expansions.

 

[Boyan_Sun]

How good is game play compared to Civ 5

It's hard to compare, mainly because the values are so different. Civ5 players have a hard time adjusting to Civ6 (current R&F version).

• In Civ5 you can only grow/build slowly, but in Civ6, most effective way of growing/building is by chopping trees and harvesting resources.
• In Civ5 population/food is extremely important, but in Civ6, value of population/food is very, very low.
• In Civ5 main units in wars are ranged units, but in Civ6, ranged units are vulnerable, usually used only for defense purposes
• In Civ5, Tall and Wide are all fine, but in Civ6, Wide >>...> Tall, unless you're just challenging something difficult like OCC.

 

[Leyrann]

In Civ5, Tall and Wide are all fine, but in Civ6

Can't really call wide viable in (unmodded) Civ 5...

Also isn't the strongest Civ 6 strategy still an archer rush?

 

[Boyan_Sun]

Also isn't the strongest Civ 6 strategy still an archer rush?

There was a serious bug in early Civ6 that AI won't upgrade/build archers, so that strategy was valid only in 2016... After that bug was fixed, archer rush was inefficient in high difficulties(but still valid in non-deity difficulties).
Please try horseman or knights. Melee and cavalry units are crushing against ranged units of same era.

 

[Leyrann]

There was a serious bug in early Civ6 that AI won't upgrade/build archers, so that strategy was valid only in 2016... After that bug was fixed, archer rush was inefficient in high difficulties(but still valid in non-deity difficulties).

I'm still reading about it very often here, discussed among deity players.

 

[Kruos]

5. And finally, how is the game after almost two years after first release? How are the bugs? Does it crash? Are you still enjoying the game? How good is game play compared to Civ 5?

Disclamer : Here is a feedback from someone who consider Civ5 the worse Civilization game, and a huge regression vs Civ4.

In term of pure gameplay, despite sharing some features like the 1UPT or the poor AI, I would say the gameplay of Civ6+1expansion is already more fun than the one of Civ5+2expansion.

Some little examples to illustrate :
- the worker build their improvment instantly, it may seems a minor thing, but actually it boosts the dynamic of the game tremendously, and make the worker management far better
- the 1UPT has been improved a little, CarpetOfDoom has nearly disapeared, and they are severals way to instantly make your unit directly on the front, thus reducing the logistic nightmare induced by the 1UPT
- there is now some kind of limited stacking to help with unit management (you have different layers of unit), it still too few but it's better than nothing (if range units were considered support it would be perfect I would say)
- the districts make the economy and the plannification of your cities very interesting, you have to plan things ahead to make a good and well optimized empire, you no longer execute a brainless plan like before, you have to adapt and 'play the map' - this is maybe the greatest thing Civ6 has successfully achieved
- the policy system is very dynamic and create great opportunity/synergy decisions for the player, all along the game, compared to the very poor and limited and static system of Civ5, it's a huge improvment
- the governor system is a new lever for the player to customize his overall strategy, by some aspects it looks like the Civ5 policy system, but more dynamic and 'organic' in the sense that the player has to constantly reevaluate where to put it to have more benefits, accordingly with his strategy
- the tall/wide concept created by Civ5 is no longer here, it was a very 'gamey' concept (by opposition to a 'simulation' concept which try to simulate the reality of things) and Civ6 game designer get ride of it, for the better (no longer brainless 4 cities optimised game)

On the other side, in term of AI, Civ6 AI is still not very good, I would say that the tactical AI is now nearly decent, but the others parts of it, despite having made some very good progress since the release, have still a lot of road to do before being good. On this side, the Civ5 AI, with all the good mods existing now, is probably more fun to play with.

That's it for now, maybe I forget some little things, I will edit if needed.

 

[Boyan_Sun]

I'm still reading about it very often here, discussed among deity players.

Maybe you should look in GotM's AfterAction threads of nearest 1 year. Any fast warmonger based reports won't use ranged units as the main force

Of course, it's most convincing to try it out yourself. Or just to think about it: as the same price, 3 horsemen vs 4 archers, which side will win? How about 5 knights against 5 crossbows?

Besides, when ranged land units attack navy units or cities, they will suffer a strength punishment of -17, equivalent to only make half damage.

 

[Leyrann]

Or just to think about it: as the same price, 3 horsemen vs 4 archers, which side will win?

Yeah, uh, that's not how the archer rush works.

Archer rush is: Build 3 slingers, get Archery, upgrade for 90 gold total, conquer your nearest opponent in turn 30-35 (or whatever's a realistic turn time; I don't like such strategies myself, prefer to take it slower).

 

[Boyan_Sun]

Archer rush is: Build 3 slingers, get Archery, upgrade for 90 gold total, conquer your nearest opponent in turn 30-35 (or whatever's a realistic turn time; I don't like such strategies myself, prefer to take it slower).

This is OK, just inefficient. Try to do it yourself, and you will find the problems. What if neighbor is too far? What if terrains are too rough? Because of loyalty, you won't be able to keep captured city for long, unless you can take many cities in very short time. Deity AI will settle first 3 cities very quick, 3 archers are far from enough - actually you need 6~8, and a few melee units. But if you can get 2 horses early, 5~8 horsemen can conquer one whole deity AI in less than 5 turns during turn 50~80.

 

[MrRadar]

Archer rush is: Build 3 slingers, get Archery, upgrade for 90 gold total

That'd be 135 gold total nowadays, 45g per upgrade, 60g if that's a Nubian Pitati. Inflation and all that, you know...

 

[CPWimmer]

1. I believe a gold pack typically only comes out after the last expansion, so that would probably take at least about a year longer.
2. Deluxe digital edition includes the DLCs, but not R&F.
3. If there's no option to buy the entire pack, probably yes. And they probably don't sell them together because that would cost them too much profits on R&F which was only released four and half a month ago.
4. I don't know, maybe someone else does.
5. There's some bugs, but not gamebreaking, I personally don't think I've ever had it crash. Would be enjoying the game if there weren't so many other things I'm doing. Certainly miles better than unmodded Civ 5 with expansions.

@siredgar With the current sale, I would highly recommend buying the Digital Deluxe Edition, and then if you like it a lot, buy Rise and Fall (which is not as deeply discounted yet) during the next sale, probably around Christmas.

 

[Eliminator_Sr]

Yeah, uh, that's not how the archer rush works.

Archer rush is: Build 3 slingers, get Archery, upgrade for 90 gold total, conquer your nearest opponent in turn 30-35 (or whatever's a realistic turn time; I don't like such strategies myself, prefer to take it slower).

You are not going to conquer anyone with 3 archers on Deity. They also increased the upgrade cost to 45 gold. Archers also have -17 strength against cities so this strategy is honestly pretty poor now. Even with Nubia you still need to build lots of archers for it to be effective.

 

[Browd]

Moderator Action: To recent posters (other than Kruos and CPWimmer): Please do not derail this thread with debates about archer rushes and other Deity strategies -- there are other threads for such discussions (or you can feel free to open a new thread to discuss early domination strategies).

 

[plasmacannon]

So I was wondering if you could help me with some questions I have:

4. What is up with Red Shell? Does it really collect your specific data like name, age, etc. from various devices, including your mobile phone? Or is it just collecting typical Big Data for market research?

5. And finally, how is the game after almost two years after first release? How are the bugs? Does it crash? Are you still enjoying the game? How good is game play compared to Civ 5?

Thanks!

Following this thread for these very same questions.

I have read multiple comments on Steam of people all over outraged about this "Red Shell", changes to the EULA and the gathering of personal information which has nothing to do with the game. Almost all were upset that this was done after they had purchased the product, and recommend not purchasing Civ6.
The Civilization series has a history of creating a poor AI and it appears they just keep doing it. This time for a lot more money.
As a long time player since Civ2 and sticking with Civ4, until I read about the collection of personal information being removed and the AI becoming at least challenging, I will see no reason to waste $$$ on Civ6. ;(
Hopefully Civ7 won't have these issues from the start.

 

[leif erikson]

There is a separate thread concerning the Red Shell issue.

Moderator Action: Please use it and do not derail this thread discussing that issue.

 

[plasmacannon]

I'm sure I and everyone appreciate the extra link.
I know I didn't "derail" as I quoted the Original poster and his concerns. His #4.
I too am concerned about it and the other issues he brought up. ;(
Hopefully, they will be addressed by the time the "#1 Gold Pack" comes out.

 

[miaasma]

my only problem with this game is how close together everyone spawns. especially with the loyalty mechanic, it really railroads you into playing aggressively early on (on top of the AI getting multiple starting settlers on higher difficulties, boxing you in before you can do anything about it). for a game that has always had multiple paths to success it's weird that they'd design the game in this way, if it was intentional anyway

 

[plasmacannon]

It sounds like larger map is needed or a start with fewer AIs.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Game doesn't crash normally, still has some sync issues in MP that can end a game.

The UI is hot garbage and will add 2 hours or more to your playthroughs. You might not care if you take 20+ hours to complete a game, but if you'd take 5 or less you'll feel this strongly. For me it's literally > half my play time making rote inputs to progress. Most players will just say "late game is slow" or that the game gets boring after the early game. Not many make the connection that as you expand past 6-10 cities your turns are disproportionately spent fighting the interface, which exacerbates the standard 4x issue of "fewer choices matter as you're further ahead".

The game also does a good EA impression in terms of how it hides its rules so have wiki + forum handy to save yourself some frustration.

War is still king like all the other civ games, since war effectively blocks the other VCs and strengthens the nation using it successfully.

Of course, it's most convincing to try it out yourself. Or just to think about it: as the same price, 3 horsemen vs 4 archers, which side will win? How about 5 knights against 5 crossbows?

Game speed starts to matter actually. Due to unit volume you can realistically get archery units up to 2 shots pretty fast and good promotions + GG will carry you even from an era behind in this game (against AI, in PvP players won't meat grind their units for you...at least not players that are hard to beat ).

On the topic of AI, there's still a lot of complaints about it. Most people complain that it's bad tactically. While true, it's hard to do better so I'll give it a pass. However, it's also intentionally designed to not try in many cases at a strategic level, and that's less forgivable. Don't expect serious win date pressure from it, even on deity and certainly not below. This isn't Civ 4 (especially not something like Civ 4 warlords before bonus nerf).