What makes the best Army?

[dmanakho]

I am not sure there was such a discussion before.
I wanted to ask you guys how do you like to use your armies.
Do you usually stack it up with offensive or defensive units? Which ones?
Any tricks and techniques on using armies effectively?

For myself I found that the best armies are made of infantry units.
Industrial ages usually bring first big scale wars with use of massive force.
I found that one or 2 infantry army could almost completely annihilate almost entire attacking force of AI, therefore making the rest of the war much easier.
Here is how I do it. I stack one or 2 armies with infantry units and then using one-way or the other I capture enemy city (the bigger city is the better, capital is the best). After that put your army in captured city, for the next few turns AI will bring everything he has to retake the city and his units will be slaughtered again and again. Few turns later the war is practically over, AI has nothing left to attack with and you can safely move your attacking units and artillery capturing one AI city after another.

 

[ongwin]

I personally think that an army is the most effective as an offensive. I like to put cavalry in it (middle ages). In the industrial age, tanks would be very nice to put in, but it does take a bit of research first. Overall the best army comes from the modern armours, and if you have the pentagon, 4 MAs in a stack, nice.

There was one game where I had 7 armies of MAs, all with four units in them. I was drowning the computer, capturing 6 cities in one turn...

Anyway, in the ancient ages, if you manage to build statue of zeus, I strongly reccomend adding them to the army. Since they have an extra health point, that would make them 6 health points for elite, then you can stack 4 into an army (with pentagon) and have a 24 health unit. Furthermore, their health per unit is 7 if they have produced a leader before, in which they would be elite* and your army would have 28 hit points....

 

[knacki]

I stack one or 2 armies with infantry units and then using one-way or the other I capture enemy city (the bigger city is the better, capital is the best). After that put your army in captured city, for the next few turns AI will bring everything he has to retake the city and his units will be slaughtered again and again.

What about culture flip (especially if u take the capitol) ?

I personally think that an army is the most effective as an offensive. I like to put cavalry in it (middle ages). In the industrial age, tanks would be very nice to put in, but it does take a bit of research first. Overall the best army comes from the modern armours, and if you have the pentagon, 4 MAs in a stack, nice.

I totally agree, but an infantry army along with a big stack of arty also do a lot of damage...

Anyway, in the ancient ages, if you manage to build statue of zeus, I strongly reccomend adding them to the army. Since they have an extra health point, that would make them 6 health points for elite, then you can stack 4 into an army (with pentagon) and have a 24 health unit.

By the time u have the pentagon, I'm not sure an army of AC is the best use for a leader...

 

[SesnOfWthr]

Personally, I usually use offensive armies as much as possible. A sipahi army (or four!) is almost a game breaker. However, when I get to the age of infantry, it's not uncommon to have one or two infantry armies covering my stacks of artys.

 

[dmanakho]

There was one game where I had 7 armies of MAs, all with four units in them. I was drowning the computer, capturing 6 cities in one turn...

I agree, MA Army must be a devastating force, but i never played at lever harder than emperor (I suck at micromanagement) and for the emperor and below game is usually well over by the time MAs are invented. I have MAs in probably 1 game out of ten.

Anyway, in the ancient ages, if you manage to build statue of zeus, I strongly reccomend adding them to the army. Since they have an extra health point, that would make them 6 health points for elite, then you can stack 4 into an army (with pentagon) and have a 24 health unit. Furthermore, their health per unit is 7 if they have produced a leader before, in which they would be elite* and your army would have 28 hit points....

I also agree with you, unfortunatelly it also rarely happen when you manage to get statue of zeus especially at harder levels. But I'd love to have an army of AC during ancient wars, which I usually always have (I meant wars).

 

[dmanakho]

What about culture flip (especially if u take the capitol) ?

Here is a little trick to prevent enemy capital from capture.
Just stack captured city with all force you have, 20-30 or more units.
If you have enough units resistance will usually end next turn and city flipping almost never happens the same turn city was captured. Pop-rush city improvement and shred population to 1 or 2 the next turn. And there is an exploit when you do pop-rushing. Say you try to rush library and advisor says it will cost too many lives... then try to rush something cheaper like walls, barracks or temple, once it rushed switch production to more expensive improvements and so on and so on and you will be able to shred population to 1 or 2 citizens only, then you can keep a small garrison to prevent flipping.
In any way, in next few turns you will capture all nearby cities.
Of course, pop-rushing is only available with certain governments so it won't work for democracy or republic.

 

[alamo]

Defensive troops are cheap, so just put more in a stack if you want strength.

Strong offensive troops, on the other hand, win wars. Put those in an army and you have a siege weapon that cuts through anything, until the next defensive unit tech arrives.

I've done the multiple whip thing for awhile. The rub is that you have to be in despot/communism to use it. It is easy to just build workers and starve the pop down. Keep your troops in the city to heal while you do this.

 

[sabo]

I capture enemy city (the bigger city is the better, capital is the best). After that put your army in captured city, for the next few turns AI will bring everything he has to retake the city and his units will be slaughtered again and again. Few turns later the war is practically over, AI has nothing left to attack with and you can safely move your attacking units and artillery capturing one AI city after another.

That's all fine and dandy until the city culture flips on you and then bye-bye army

 

[dmanakho]

That's all fine and dandy until the city culture flips on you and then bye-bye army

Please see my previous post on how to prevent a culture flip.
In my experience i hardly ever have culture flips, and mostly because i simply forget to leave enough units to garrison city

 

[dmanakho]

Defensive troops are cheap, so just put more in a stack if you want strength.

I do agree but here is my thought.
Let say you have an 3 unit infantry army in city and you have 10 or 12 cavalry units attacking you... In my experience army will always slaughter those cavalry units and will lose about half of HPs.
If instead of army you have stuck of 3 separate infantry units then you will probably lose them all when the same number of cavalry attacks. Therefore my tactics may on having infantry army maybe not good on taking several cities in a turn but it is excellent on annihilating entire attacking force of AI army.
After reading this thread i think the best way is having well balanced military with one or 2 infantry armies plus offensive armies to attack.

 

[dgfred]

D- I like to have a defensive army if I already have a couple of offensive ones
for . When the AIs do attack a defensive army, though rarely,
they get slaughtered . I play mostly on Monarch so usually I can
get quite of few armies from a early war .

 

[sabo]

Please see my previous post on how to prevent a culture flip.
In my experience i hardly ever have culture flips, and mostly because i simply forget to leave enough units to garrison city

What if your in communism or fasism and can't pop rush a culture building because you don't have enough people in the city, or the city is rebelling on you and you can't, or you can't get enough troops into the city? Etc. etc. A city can flip after one turn.

I think most people that have been playin this game a while know how to minimize culture flips but there is no sure fire way to avoid them other than to turn off "cultural conversions" at the beginning of the game

 

[Kiech]

Conquistidors! They can pillage with every step, take out some workers, kill longbowmen...then hide behind my infantry all in the same turn!

 

[binyo66]

Here is a little trick to prevent enemy capital from capture.
Just stack captured city with all force you have, 20-30 or more units.

I think I read somewhere that someone lost around 50 units because of culture flips. For me, I always put the same units in the army.
Cavs army always consists of elite cavs.
Infantry army always consts of elite/vet infantry.

 

[sorky]

The problem with offensive army only is that when defending a stack, you offensive army take firsts hits (more hp so more chance of success). So you lose more hp than with defensive unit.
And if you bring defensive unit in the stack, they won't take shots because of the offensive army defending the tile...

I used to always make defensive army else: the first one for winning a battle quickly and others one if I have already 2-3 defensive army. 3/4 defensive army, 1/4 offensive approximatly

 

[collin_stp]

this is a good debate. I use both types, but my first army, I almost always have a calvary army. I like it because you get four movement points with it, which allows for four attacks from adjacent tiles, or three from being two tiles away. This fact alone is a huge improvement as far as I am concerned, that you really don't have with the infantry army (two movement points, and two attacks). I think it is much tougher to take a city than to keep it, so I concentrate on the offensive.

 

[dmanakho]

I think it is much tougher to take a city than to keep it, so I concentrate on the offensive.

I aggree, but i want to stress that i like to put a defencive army into just captured city not just to keep it but to destroy all AI forces. There is a well known exploit when AI throws everything he has at you when you capture it's city and defensive army in captured city is the best way to kill all the attackers with least casualties on human side...
After that, we can roll our attacking forces across enemy territory and take city after another like a piece of cake

 

[dmanakho]

I think most people that have been playin this game a while know how to minimize culture flips but there is no sure fire way to avoid them other than to turn off "cultural conversions" at the beginning of the game

Yes, you are right and i was panished yesterday big time yesterday.
I played emperor game for sumerians and took a large korean city with Leonardo workshop and Sun-Tsu, I really wanted to keep it. those wonders are pretty useful at the age of knights when you have all the upgrades pending... My problem was i already switched to the republic and could not do pop-rushing, i decided to starve city and put all units i had into the city including 2 knights armies... and guess what, It flipped on me few turns later . I was mad mad mad as hell....
But i know my mistake instead of waiting with all the troops in that city, i should have try to raise all nearby korean cities to lower down cultural influence. I remember in my previous wars i always had bigger force and could capture many cities in area before flip could occur in any single of them.
Oh, well.....

 

[Longasc]

It is usually better to stack fast offensive units. However adding a Mech Infantry to a Panzer Army is a very good idea! But what is the usual combination?

3 Knights, 3 Cavalry -> if you would add a defensive unit 3+1 oder 2+1, you would usually lose 1 movement and a whole possible attack this way. Is this worth the added defense? I guess not.

 

[DS_Legionary]

All my armies are offensive until I reach Computers, where my defending armies will be the best they can be. I have recently discovered the value of an offensive army in my first win on Emperor level. An army made of Mounted Warriors is completely devasting in the AA or even early MA. For I was losing the battle early on, but I soon pulled into the lead with my army. Had I wasted that army on Spears I probably would have lost.