What should be changed in CIV3 ?

2 or 3 most important changes in the game would be:

  • Culture flipping only possible if culture victory is ON

    Votes: 7 10.6%
  • Culture flipping after conquest impossible if #armies > #city's pop

    Votes: 21 31.8%
  • Initial "Settler diaherrea" removed

    Votes: 13 19.7%
  • Food trade between cities in Domestical or Trade Advisors' screen

    Votes: 27 40.9%
  • City govs would never built anything you haven't build before or already obsolete

    Votes: 16 24.2%
  • Units from more recent ages would have an attack and defense bonus

    Votes: 23 34.8%
  • CIV2 rules option on the starting screen

    Votes: 7 10.6%
  • Male and Female rulers for each CIV

    Votes: 23 34.8%
  • CIV of the month released on civ3.com regularly

    Votes: 7 10.6%
  • Unique tech for each CIV

    Votes: 12 18.2%
  • Techs available only for militaristic, others for scientific and so on...

    Votes: 13 19.7%
  • More techs

    Votes: 28 42.4%
  • Less techs

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Less corruption

    Votes: 23 34.8%
  • More resources on the map

    Votes: 6 9.1%
  • Bonus for having more than one resource of each type

    Votes: 16 24.2%
  • AI more peace-lover and more willing to go for trade

    Votes: 17 25.8%
  • Ability to trade units

    Votes: 26 39.4%
  • AI colligations against humans or strong (rather than weaks)

    Votes: 9 13.6%
  • AI never become more angree if we offer more

    Votes: 15 22.7%

  • Total voters
    66
Well, my biggest criticisms of the game are
1) the weak implementation of espionage
2) the spaceship ending -- I much preferred Civ2's spaceship game
3) spaceship and diplomatic endings come way too early in the Modern Age.
 
The biggest thing that needs to be added is making the AI smarter. I don't have too much of a problem with so-called "settler diaherrea", since I think it's a good strategy, although it does go a little far when they try to settle tiny tracts of poor quality land.

The real problems with the AI (that can be relatively easily fixed I assume) are it not building enough barracks, sending units with poor defense and high attack ratings to attack enemy cities, and leaving them open to counter attack in enemy lands (it just loves to do this with longbowmen, who get slaughtered by knights). Workers need to be smarter - clearing a jungle, when there is an unimproved rich grassland right next store is dead silly; it shouldn't trade workers so cheaply early on.

It should also not allow the player to defend their cities with paper-thin defenses while building up a powerful economy. If I had tanks, and I saw another Civilization's cities were defended by spearmen, I'd attack them immediately, no matter how nice they were to me, or how many good trades they did with me. I don't see why the CivIII AI doesn't think the same way.

hmm...I could go on all day about this, so I think I'll just leave it there :)
 
I basically just want to see better espionage & diplomacy (hopefully in a 2nd x-pack)

I'd either go back to spy units (the easier solution) or add a cool epsionage advisor where you can allocate spy units to different civs/cities. (allocating them to yours is counter espionage)

One big spy options id like is the ability to trick one civ into declaring war on another (framing them for an assassination attempt or something) with a chance to backfire and cause both to declare war on you if you get caught :)

Also a way through spies to cause a rebellion (prolonged civil disorder in a city or several cities that has to be put down with troops...with a chance if it goes on long enough to topple their government) Perfect for when you want to bribe a city to yourside, but it says they are a democracy :P

Of course diplomatic options to ask for two countries to stop fighting.

Unit trading definately.

The ability to name objectives in alliances. Such as I want you to attack Thebes, Bismark. He doesnt have to do it, but if he can then he should. Likewise, the ai making similar requests, and if you fail to meet them in a reasonable amount of time it damages relations.

Reputation repairing over time like it did in civ2 (sorry for the comparison). I hate it how if I sneak attack in 2000 bc, Im still hated for it in 2000 ad :P It should be very slow, but you should be able to eventually regain your reputation if you stop doing bad things ;) Changing governments should probally also speed this proceess along somewhat.

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Also occasional random regime changes in ai civs would be cool. Like getting a message that Napolean has replaced Louis XVI as head of france (drastically changing the ai in terms of what it builds & aggression levels etc). Just stuff like that to keep you on your toes. Even if the art doesn't change that'd be cool :)

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Ive posted it a few times, but id like to see a MAD setup for ICBMS, you specify your target with them like now, but instead of instant impact it doesnt happen until the start of your turn. At the start of enemy civs turns they get notice of the launch and can counter-launch or negotiate with the launching civ to self-destruct them before impact. (or both) This should only apply to ICBM's though not strategic nukes. Delaying impact till the start of the next turn and doing the popup that "Rome has launched 7 ICBM's) should be easy enough. The popup should not say what the targets were or even which civ they were aimed at though ;)
 
Oh and destroying a capital should have some huge negative impact :) Its probally too much work to impliment civ2 style having to rebuild the palace and possible civil wars scenarios. But they could at least force the unforunate civ into anarchy (just like a government switch) if both the palace & forbidden palace get destroyed at once.

EDIT:
And if it doesnt already happen this way, if you destroy a civ's palace when they have a forbidden palace, the forbidden palace should automatically upgrade to palace, forcing them to build a new forbidden palace. Im not sure if thats what occurs now or not, but it would make sense.
 
Nobody forces them to build a new Forbidden Palace then...

Anyway, it would be the only solution.
 
I I were Firaxis, I would improve the AI so cheating woud be less needed.

And I would change the way ressources work ; I would put a lot more of them, so everyone can have some, BUT the more you have, the cheaper and faster it is for you to build your corresponding units (like salpeter and musketeers, say).
 
Id have to agree about the resources, id really like it to be more complex. Each resource on your trade net (strategic that is) adding 1 to your "stockpile" of that resource each turn. Each unit or improvement you build requiring that resource takes 1 away. Possibly warehouse improvements allowing a larger stockpile. Possibly having your rail network require 1 coal per turn to keep active (or a highway network requiring 1 oil). Then the ability to actually trade in specific amounts. Possibly to counter balance allow mine/oil derek terrain improvements to increase the harvest rate from 1 per turn to 2/3 per turn. And also possibly actually having each resource on the map say how much is available before it runs out if you right click it. Yeah, that is much like any rts, but it'd work just as good in a tbs :)


But, I seriously doubt if most gamers want that much micromanagement. I think id like it more complex, but I highly suspect the average gamer is happy with the resources being abstract.
 
We need to be able to pirate trade routes with units.

There really needs to be a 'renaisance' (chose your own name)age between medieval and industrial - the medieval period is too cluttered.
 
Will someone explkain to me what settler diarheoa is. Is ti anything to do with the computer pumping out settlers?
 
Firstly here are things not mentioned above.

The trade advisor should have a list of all the current trades you have open with the AI. I am very tired of having to go in to diplomacy to see how much turns I have left on to get back my wines.


Also it should be possible for trades to be cancelled peacefully before 20 turns are up. This would involve paying a lump sum fee to the AI. Obviously this would be no trivial amount, and the AI (or whichever side benefitted most from the existing trade) would have the right to refuse any deal, or the one being offered. As a last resort you would just cancel the deal and have your reputation severly damaged (not to mention risk them going to war with you). This would be very interesting in the case of being at war with one AI when one of your two sources of oil runs out. The other source is being traded with another computer opponent. To get it back you'd have to give them most your money or whatever ....


Does the AI ever involve itself with espionage? I've never gotten a message saying that one of Cleopatra's agents was caught trying to steal troop positions. In civ 2 the AI was always active in espionage, not so this time around, and the game is poorer for it. A lot of people complain about the espionage/diplomatic missions, but maybe if the AI took part it'd sort the problem out.


The following are gripes about things missing from civ 2. They are not major omissions, but they helped the game in their own special way.

The first is the demographics screen. Surely as you get an embassy with an opponent you should be able to see their demographics? Or at least the ones they are ratest highest in? I am aware that the graphics of the demographics screen would not permit you to see any other information, but then change it.

Also; in civ 2 your military advisor would give you a list of all the units lost in all the wars ever (provided you had embassies with the appropriate civs). I know this affects the gameplay in no way, but it was a good screen to look at as the game neared it's end, and you could clearly see when each civ had it's major wars from it.


To all the people complaining about the resources. The way I see it is that if you are to have more of each type of resource you would eliminate the role resources play in the current game. If I note that one of my enemies has a few supplies of oil (before they get refining) I will not hesitate to go to war if I have one or less oil in my teritory. This helps make the game what it is. Wars over resources would end if everybody had every resource.

One way to counter this is to create more types of resources so that everybody will miss maybe one or two throughout history, but if you do this the map will become a sea of resources. All messy and cluttered. The resources are fine I say.


I played diety level for the first time yesterday (for the laugh). I was slaughtered. The AI was pumping out units quicker than you can say "production bonus". By the time I had created two warriors the AI already had a settler AND a spearman going forth to claim new lands, not to mention the spearman in their capital. Back to monarchy for me. :(

The AI does need to be recreated so that it wins on diety because it plays better, not because it cheats. I concede that the AI does have a need to cheat, but at the level it does in civ 3 as opposed to civ 2? Civ 2 was fine. The AI did cheat, but it trashed me because it played better and made better decisions as well as because it cheated.

In the poll I voted for ttwo options.

1)
Culture flipping after conquest impossible if #armies > #city's pop.

I agree with this to an extent. A communist civ would have the ability to build improvenments in the new city and take it's population down to manageable levels at the same time.

How about: If the city you have taken over has a population greater than size 6 you must have the population number + 1 units in the city to protect it. And then the probability of losing for a smaller force would be related to the size of the force you had in it.
Example: a size 12 city with 7 units has a much greater chance of being lost than a size 12 city with 12 units. And a size 12 city with 13 units cannot be lost through culture to the civ you have captured it from, without the AI using propaganda.

For a city of size less than or equal to 6 you would need a full 6 units garrisoned to prevent defection. And again a city of size 5 with two units garissoned has a greater chance of being lost than a city of size 5 with 5 units garrisonned.

2)Food trade between cities in Domestical or Trade Advisors' screen.

I fully agree with this. It would allow a civ to fully exploit the productivity of a city build in the hills, with the traded food coming from cleared jungles. And again it is something I'd like to see the AI take advantage of aswell.

Also how about food trade between civs? Due to the nature of the game it couldn't happen as often as it would in real life, but their would be valid chances.

Example is a large city (with strong defences) under siege to a strong army. If there is not enough food in the civs other cities to help supply the city (as the opposing army are occupying their ground) it could trade with an allied civ at an exorbitant price.
 
Originally posted by Baleog

Does the AI ever involve itself with espionage? I've never gotten a message saying that one of Cleopatra's agents was caught trying to steal troop positions.

I've gotten a message once or twice about them trying to plant a spy, but thats all. Actually I think Ive gotten that message exactly twice in all the games ive played....
 
One thing about Civ 3 that has been a huge, huge disappointment for me, is that they stuck with the "production comes from cities" model. That's what makes the new rules for wonders soooo frustrating.

How hard would it be for excess shields to be shipped to another city, with spillage all along the way? So that if you have a city that can produce one artillery every 2 turns, but wastes 30 shields doing so, I should be able to send 25 of those 30 to any city within 10 spaces, 20 shields up to 20 spaces, etc.

That's how things are made nowadays, anyway. Each part of your car is made in a different place. Their is waste due to the cost of transporting the parts.

Games can be ruined if you just barely miss on a couple of wonders. Just ruined. It's damned hard, and just no FUN, to try to recover from 600 lost shields.
 
Originally posted by Baleog
Firstly here are things not mentioned above.

A Poll doesn't allow me to put more than 20 options (already a fair number) and it wouldn't be viable to make options with 10 lines each. We have to make choices.
Maybe mine weren't the better, but we can discuss that also in this thread...
 
I was actually refering to what had not been discussed so far. I know about the limit of 20 options and your options were very good for the limited space available.

:)
 
Thx :)

And by the way, settler diaherrea is when AIs pump settlers, but so many so many that even ice and little squares (9 tiles) inside YOUR borders get a new AI civ.
Make many settlers is a good strategy, but everything has a limit!!!
I put it because some people really dislike it. It's Zouave 2nd biggest annoying (as far as I've seen, after the culture flipping...)

Note that in CIV2, it was the other way arround: AI doesn't make many settlers and suffered deeply from that. The question here is the equilibrium...
 
Better diplomacy/UN - The UN is pathetic, as is diplomacy throughout the rest of the game. I should be able to create a real alliance with another civ that would allow us to coordinate attacks on specific targets, use one another's units to defend cities, let allied cities repair your units, etc. etc. There is so much more that they could have done with diplomacy in CivIII.

I agree with Baleog on the various screens. The current advisor screens are useless IMO. Oh, and change the layout if you must, but I'd like to see all 16 Civs on the foreign advisor screen.

An option after conquering a city to "liberate to previous owner." This should then result in diplomatic goodwill being generated.

The ability to group workers.

The option to allow city trading again. I don't care if it was an exploit. Give me the option to allow it in the editor and no one gets hurt.

Less hardcoding in the editor. I want the Manhattan Project to be a small wonder. I want Wall Street to generate more than 50 gold per turn. I'm sure there are plenty of other issues I'm forgetting.

re. Settler diaherrea, I don't have a problem with AI producing as many settlers as possible, that's what I do. What I don't do is try to plant that settler on a three square plot of land in the middle of another civ's territory. Please fix this.

The ability to trade technology on an exclusive basis. I want my ally that I am propping up to have military tradition, but I don't want his (or my) enemies to get that technology. Unfortunately, there is no way to do this now. As soon as you trade that tech to your ally, he will turn around and sell it to his friends who will then sell it to my enemies. I want to be able to sell a tech with the understanding that the civ I sell the tech to cannot sell it to other civs for a period of 10/20/30/40 turns. Obviously, the amount I'll get in return for the tech in this case would be less than in a normal trade.

Variable periods for trade deals. I don't think the current AI can handle this, but there is no reason it can't be tweaked to do so.

I'll echo the sentiments of the other posters as well as there are many good suggestions here.

It's unfortunate, because CivIII could have been a great game with some more work. It isn't even close in my book, but it could be with a little work.
 
I'm a big fan of food trading with other cities or civs. It could really have a big impact on strategy and production (imagine iron works in the mountains being fed by other cities!!!).

Otherwise, my preferences would be along the lines of emphasizing trade, making it equitable with the human and AI, making it more intricate and complex, and adding more resources/luxuries and more requirements of resources for units, buildings or even tech.

I don't think more resources should be available. It would take away from strategy.
 
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