What should we do with Gordium?

[classical_hero]

The previous poll caused a problem because it will go against the stated victory goal of the game. We want to win via Culture so we need to do something about Gordium. It appears that there are three option to be had. I do not believe that there are any more alternatives to this. We cannot continue with Gordium producing culture for us.

1) Sell all cultural buildings in Gordium. This is the one I prefer.
2) Disband Gordium.
3) Gift Gordium to an enemy.

 

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

Well, the librarys kind of already exploded. So I suppose selling all the buildings couldnt hurt. Then again, razing the city would be fun.
yeah, lets just burn that beatrice down, aight.

Burn, baby, burn!

 

[Black_Hole]

Abstain as there is no other option...

The people of Gordium deserve better than this!!! Is it their fault our leaders were land hungry and didn't plan ahead? Do we really want to remove culture to win by culture?!? Where is the honor in that?
I do not care for a culture win, if we have to remove culture to win by it... Gordium made those buildings with their hands, now we come in and destroy them...
Now we can always say: "In DG6 we won by culture by killing a city. Wohoo!!! Aren't we cool?"

BTW, there really should have been an option for do nothing... If people knew what we had to do to Gordium to win by culture, some may have not wanted to win by culture...

I encourage all citizens to Abstain!

 

[Strider]

Abstain as there is no other option...

BTW, there really should have been an option for do nothing... If people knew what we had to do to Gordium to win by culture, some may have not wanted to win by culture...

I encourage all citizens to Abstain!

Agreed.

The lack of options in this poll is disturbing.

 

[Furiey]

Well we have voted numerous times that we want to win by culture, this is how we need to do it, it is not another do we want to win by culture poll which the inclusion of a do nothing option would make it. The only other options to avoid domination I can think of are to abandon or gift cities elsewhere - it'll probably take 2. Gordium is the best option, it only affects 1 city. Gifting is a dangerous option, it could flip back to us and immediately send us into domination, plus we would have to turn it over to Civs that have started the wars we are fighting. Selling the Library and Temple (paid for out of Taxes not build by their hands) is the one with least effect on Gordium, more culture will be built nearby, it takes 0 turns to travel by rail to the next city along the line or to one of our many cities with Universities and Cathedrals, and there will be more of these as our culture increases. Adandoning Gordium is the safest method, we could rebuild a bit further back, but this has more effect on Gordium, what will happen to its people then?

 

[GenMarshall]

Agreed.

The lack of options in this poll is disturbing.

I find the lack of opinons disturbing

 

[Black_Hole]

Well we have voted numerous times that we want to win by culture, this is how we need to do it, it is not another do we want to win by culture poll which the inclusion of a do nothing option would make it. The only other options to avoid domination I can think of are to abandon or gift cities elsewhere - it'll probably take 2. Gordium is the best option, it only affects 1 city. Gifting is a dangerous option, it could flip back to us and immediately send us into domination, plus we would have to turn it over to Civs that have started the wars we are fighting. Selling the Library and Temple (paid for out of Taxes not build by their hands) is the one with least effect on Gordium, more culture will be built nearby, it takes 0 turns to travel by rail to the next city along the line or to one of our many cities with Universities and Cathedrals, and there will be more of these as our culture increases. Adandoning Gordium is the safest method, we could rebuild a bit further back, but this has more effect on Gordium, what will happen to its people then?

if we knew we wanted to win by culture a long time ago, why didn't we plan? we should have stopped conquesting all of these countries...

 

[Furiey]

We did plan, Gordiam was always the approximate limit. With no Governor for those cities the culture got rushed. No plan is perfect. Now we are correcting it.

 

[classical_hero]

The reason their is no other option because these are the only options we can take. We cannot leave Gordium in the state that it is in right now. We have to do something because if we allow the city to grow in culture, we will go against previous polls stating the fact that we want to win via culture. This poll delibrately did not have acontinue on the sme path option because we cannot take that option to win by the method we had previously chosen. It is not my fault that this has been thrust upon me, but we have to do something to stop this city from growing past the domination limit. We have to something, not nothing as most people want to do. It seems people are schizophrenic here. On one hand we want to win by culture, but we want to stay with culture in Gordium and that will get us over the domination limit. We cannot have it both ways. It is one way or another. I am giving the least painful option.

 

[Bertie]

The reason their is no other option because these are the only options we can take. We cannot leave Gordium in the state that it is in right now. We have to do something because if we allow the city to grow in culture, we will go against previous polls stating the fact that we want to win via culture. . . . We have to something, not nothing as most people want to do. It seems people are schizophrenic here. On one hand we want to win by culture, but we want to stay with culture in Gordium and that will get us over the domination limit. We cannot have it both ways. It is one way or another. I am giving the least painful option.

Very well said. Our "leaders" don't dictate the will of the people; they are vessels and conduits for the will of the people. Virtually every action that's been taken in this game has been discussed and polled to death. It's not the leaders who made "mistakes" (though they may have implemented them); it's all of us who have done so. We all take credit for the good things; so also must we all take responsibility for solving our problems.

Sell the cultural buildings. Then rush settlers/workers from Gordium until the city is no more, and let them join other cities so they'll get their culture 'which they've worked so hard for.' Not the ideal solution, but a workable one. Ideal is good and it's what we all aim for; but sometimes you have to make lemonade out of what life (or civ) gives you. Classical Hero is doing a good job of mixing a pitcher of lemonade.

 

[DaveShack]

Didn't we have instructions to raze Gordium instead of capturing it if the capture put us at or near the limit?

It is clear that these are the only reasonable options which preserve the possibility of a cultural win. There is an unreasonable option which is to move out all military units and let the city be captured -- but that would be even more cruel to Gordium's citizens than it would be to remove their cultural buildings.

I like the idea of building workers / settlers to abandon the city, and relocating the citizens to another location.

 

[Furiey]

I think DS is probably right about the raze/capture issue on Gordium, although I haven't checked.

Letting the city be captured may return it to its former oppressors the Hittites, and the cultural buildings would still be destroyed. We would still run the risk of it flipping back.

Gordium would not lose all its culture when the Temple/Library is sold, just stop gaining any more.

If we are to build Settlers/Workers then abandon (the Workers would be slaves on the most part), we would have to sell the improvements first as we would not be able to produce enough Settlers/Workers before Gordium expands in 3 turns. We would lose the culture that Gordium has already gained. This is an interesting option though and could be further discussed/implemented after this initial domination crisis is over. I'm not sure who's province Gordium will be in, but it will be an interesting discussion for the Governor.

 

[Double Stack]

I'm not sure who's province Gordium will be in, but it will be an interesting discussion for the Governor.

I am the Governor for the province that Gordium will be in. Indeed this will be interesting as it seems that the decision to disband the city or not is in my authority.

First things first, we need to resolve the domination limit crisis. Then we can discuss what to do with Gordium.

DoubleStack waves to all the debators

 

[classical_hero]

Didn't we have instructions to raze Gordium instead of capturing it if the capture put us at or near the limit?

It is clear that these are the only reasonable options which preserve the possibility of a cultural win. There is an unreasonable option which is to move out all military units and let the city be captured -- but that would be even more cruel to Gordium's citizens than it would be to remove their cultural buildings.

I like the idea of building workers / settlers to abandon the city, and relocating the citizens to another location.

It appears that there are no instruction regarding Gordium, in what I have browsed.

This situation should have never been allowed to occur. Do not blame for this course of action that I am forced to take. It was thrust upon me and at least I am doing something about it. This is really not my jurisdiction, but noone else was doing something, so I did something about the mess we are in. Blame me for doing something positive for this game, not for this mess we are in. The interest in this game has increased dramatically since this issue was raised. I should be thanked for raising the level of interest, not for something that I had no control over and yet I seem to be the only one who is interested in fixing this situation.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

The current RPG "Kaboom-skie" is meant to give the overzealous culture expanders a way out of their dilemma.

Gordium is now in revolt, and our leaders have a chance to something that is at least believable. Storm the city and raze it to the ground. You give yourself a bigger buffer too!

I can't believe people are still holding on to the misguided notion of selling the cultural buildings; it's just not a believable option. Since you don't want this city to have the benefits that all of our other cities have the chance to enjoy, why don't you just get rid of it?

We give you guys a reasonable out and you still don't take it.........

EDIT: Hey abstainers, why don't you join me in a call to disband.....the only plausible option. Thanks!

 

[Donovan Zoi]

The interest in this game has increased dramatically since this issue was raised. I should be thanked for raising the level of interest, not for something that I had no control over and yet I seem to be the only one who is interested in fixing this situation.

Nice try, c_h, but this issue would have just been swept under the rug if it weren't for some abrasive knucklehead chiming in. Hopefully you know that I am just doing this to add some fire to the game, and it is not personal.

You all don't have to thank me though.........

 

[classical_hero]

Who says that this is the final stage of this plan? What I am saying is the first stage is that we get rid of all culture buildings. The governor could then start building workers so that we get something form this city. We need a way out, and my plan is a start.

 

[classical_hero]

So now the all important interpretation of this poll. Those who wanted to keep things as they are was 9 out of 20. This was less than half. Those who wanted to do something about the situation was 11 out of 20. So the general feeling is that the people want to do something to Gordium. When we break it down we find that 7 out 20 wanted to sell the culture in the city, 3 wanted to disband the city, and one wanted to gift the city. My assumption is that these two option would also include the removal of those buildings since we would not have them any more.

So here is the Cultural Minister's decision as adjudged by interpretating this poll.

We will sell the cultural buildings.​

 

[Black_Hole]

So now the all important interpretation of this poll. Those who wanted to keep things as they are was 9 out of 20. This was less than half. Those who wanted to do something about the situation was 11 out of 20. So the general feeling is that the people want to do something to Gordium. When we break it down we find that 7 out 20 wanted to sell the culture in the city, 3 wanted to disband the city, and one wanted to gift the city. My assumption is that these two option would also include the removal of those buildings since we would not have them any more.

So here is the Cultural Minister's decision as adjudged by interpretating this poll.

We will sell the cultural buildings.​

I disagree with your interperation for 3 reasons

1. many people abstained because they felt the poll was made wrongly

2. if you aren't going to go by actual total it needs to be in the poll preface, otherwise people will vote differently, ALL polls should choose the winner by the option with most votes, unless stated otherwise in the poll's first post...

3. The poll is strongly biased, people shouldn't have to vote abstain just because the leader leaves an option out

Abstain received the largest vote, a non-vias repoll is needed.
The poll needs a none option/Leave Gordium Alone option

 

[classical_hero]

Abstain received the largest vote, a non-vias repoll is needed.
The poll needs a none option/Leave Gordium Alone option

That option is unacceptable considering the fact that we are aiming for cultural victory, rather than a domination victory.