What to do in hopelessly corrupt cities?

[tao]

With the expansion of Fanatica, we have a growing number of cities hopelessly corrupt (i.e. wltkd, courthouses, police stations will NOT help in reducing waste and corruption.

IMHO there are various options for such cities:

1. Build/hurry temple, if we need the culture expansion to claim territory or e.g. get fish/whales.

2. Build/hurry harbor, if in a strategic position.

3. Grow them to pop 6 and then create specialists (taxmen/scientists).

4. Grow them to pop 6 and then build workers.

5. Grow them to pop 6 and then hurry an aqueduct. (IMHO inferior to the next alternative.)

6. Grow them to pop 6 and then build settler to found another city (preferably in cities with granary).

7. Build units (if barracks) or artillery (if no barracks), maybe later switching to cruise missile. (my favorite solution).

8. What I would NOT do is hurry improvements (e.g. aqueducts) costing maintenance without analyzing the return on investment.

Opinions?

PS: IMHO very commendable is Donsig's intention to sell "useless" banks giving us 20g each!

 

[Sarevok]

if nothing can be done, raze them. We cant a conquest victory, not a domination.

 

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

MIA would support abandoning them if they are utterly useless. (As we will with the Zulu, Aztecs and Persians)

SaaM

 

[tao]

But here we are talking about cities on "our" continent. At least I did. And we do not want to create gaps in our territory by razing cities.

 

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

MIA is against touching anything on the continent. We need a big pink splotch to rule the world with.

SaaM
MIA Head

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by tao
PS: IMHO very commendable is Donsig's intention to sell "useless" banks giving us 20g each!

While I have requested that the bank in Norwich be sold, the credit for this idea goes to my fellow governor, Donovan Zoi. I know it's difficult to tell us apart in this little cage.

Of the options outlined I think building workers is good. This is the method I hope to employ in Norwich. Trouble is, switching over to workers right away would result in the loss of some accumulated shields. So I have opted to raise some settlers in the hopes that these will be relocated to more productive cities in our country.

donsig
Governor of Norwich

PS - Credit for the settler relocation idea also goes to Donovan Zoi.

 

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

Originally posted by donsig
So I have opted to raise some settlers in the hopes that these will be relocated to more productive cities in our country.

I would like to take this moment to personally thank Governor Donsig. These settlers will hepl our core cities expand once hospitals have been built, allowing Fanatica to keep its lead when push comes to shove on the other continent.

SaaM
MIA Head

 

[Chieftess]

I'm against razing anything on our continent, and in the Greek/Egyptian lands (of which some cities might still be useful. The tundra cities might be corrupt, but they'll be small anyway). But remember, razing cities is a signal to the AI to plop a settler on a galley, and send him settling (even if it's in the middle of our territory). The AI loves doing that.

 

[Sarevok]

If a city has 30+ corruption and has no strategic resources, Raze it.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

Originally posted by Sarevok
if nothing can be done, raze them. We cant a conquest victory, not a domination.

If the military establishment wishes a Conquest victory, then ensure that the city is razed upon capture.

Do not leave that unsavory option to the domestic sector.


In regards to tao's suggestions, the Province of Nihilon will emphasize worker production over all else. This also includes using the first workers produced in my province to irrigate over "useless" mines to facilitate more rapid growth, as long as the Minister of Finace and Labor(MoFaL) approves.

Once irrigation is complete in a corrupt province, I would prefer to either release these workers to full control of the MoFaL or use them similar to how donsig is using the first Settlers in his province. thanks for the props, donsig, but the Settler idea to save shields is yours There are several non-corrupt(20% or less) cities(Kobayashi City, Liebling, Antwerp come to mind) that have an overabundance of improved tiles but are only Size 2-3. A little help from our corrupt provinces would have these cities up to Size 12 and producing military in no time, with the addition of an Aqueduct of course).

Lastly, I would like to discuss the merits of using rush gold to keep worker production in line with city growth. Most Size 6 cities, once irrigated, will grow in less than 10 turns. Do you think it would be worth the rush gold to complete the worker to match this cycle?

For instance, City A has a surplus of 4 food per turn so it will grow every five turns as long as it is able. So, on the fifth turn, in order to keep that city the same size next turn, a worker would have accumulated five shields and could be rushed for 20g. Doing so would allow the city to repeat process the very next turn.

NOTE: A size 6 city that implements this plan would still start the next turn at Size 5 if it does not have an Aqueduct. This is due to city growth being calculated first. Since the city cannot be bumped to Size 7, the loss of pop for the worker is taken from the city at Size 6 --- resulting in a smaller city next turn. In corrupt provinces this really doesn't matter much.

Please let me know what you think.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

I forgot to mention that I would only use the worker rush idea to implement the Size 12 Plan. Let's look at Kobayashi City to see illustrate whether my last idea is worth it or not.

This city is mostly desert(2f-1s-2c). So if we were to send 10 rushed workers there to get it to Size 12, we will have spent 200g to make 20gpt and 10 spt. In other words this measure will have paid for itself in 10 turns, shield increase notwithstanding.

It also makes me wonder if it is worth it to rush a worker after the first turn for 36g in some cases just to realize the potential of these core cities. Let me know what you think.

 

[tao]

Originally posted by Donovan Zoi
Lastly, I would like to discuss the merits of using rush gold to keep worker production in line with city growth. Most Size 6 cities, once irrigated, will grow in less than 10 turns. Do you think it would be worth the rush gold to complete the worker to match this cycle?

Please let me know what you think.

I usually don't do it much. But I'm not sure as there are a number of alternatives possible. I asked the MoFL about his plans regarding workers.

 

[Rik Meleet]

Corrupt or not corrupt; cities on our continent are still useful. If not for shields and commerce they can contribute with food and land-fills. They should never be abandonned.
Cities on other continents are by definition useless, except if they are located on strategic locations (coastal, canals, etc.), contain special buildings (useful wonders) or have a nice resources. We should mainly raze them; about 80% of them. We aren't going to use them and if it invites the AI to stop producing good things and start them producing settlers, we pull further ahead.

Agreed, a lone settler in a transport is annoying; but nothing a "steal plan" with spies won't solve.

 

[Chieftess]

Cities also contribute to the total allowed number of troops, which we'll need.

 

[tao]

Originally posted by Chieftess
Cities also contribute to the total allowed number of troops, which we'll need.

Could you please elaborate? I only know of 1 army for every 4 cities.

 

[Sarevok]

Originally posted by Chieftess
Cities also contribute to the total allowed number of troops, which we'll need.

Naturally, you dont raze cities size 13 or above.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

Sarevok and CT - I don't know what you two are getting at, but if it's regarding unit support under Republic then you are playing the wrong game.

In Civ3 Vanilla, Republic still has 0 unit support for all size cities.