What to do with those leaders?

[slashing]

I'm playing the following game:

Egyptian
Regent
Standard Continents

My continent has me in the middle, Romans to the north, Greeks to the south, and I've already conquered the Japanese. The other continent has just Germans and Iroquois.

I'm in the top 3 in most respects (tech, culture, power etc), it's 1300 and I have about 20 cities. In a very long war with the Romans, I have just received my first leader. Should I:

Build my first army
Rush build Sun Tzu's
Rush build Forbidden Palace
Hold for 5 turns for Sistine Chapel (waiting for technology)
Hold for 15 turns for Leonardo's Workshop (waiting for technology)

 

[Shabbaman]

Well, that depends on how large your continent is, how much corruption you have and on what you're planning to do. I'd say SZ is a must if you're planning to conquer, and I wouldn't wait 15 turns (or even 5): as long as you're at war and you've got elite units, there might be a lot more leaders, and they won't appear as long as you already have a leader.

So maybe it's a plan to build an army and then the Heroic Epic, so you might get lotsa leaders.

 

[GeneralTacticus]

Why wait to rush-build the Wonders? Dump the shields into something else and then rushbuild from scratch - it's a waste of shields to rushbuild a wonder in progress.

 

[Lab Monkey]

A victorious army lets you build the military academy SW, so an army can be useful, especially if you don't think you'll get many more leaders.

Check what the other civs are building - I always try to get Leonardo's, it's a massive help. If it looks as though someone will beat you to it, get it, especially if you're not rolling in cash.

The forbiden palace is only a real necessity on large continents, and there's no real race to get it. Also if you're playing 1.21f, corruption is just easily solved by courthouses while waiting for the palace to be built.

Sun Tzu's is only good if you've got better things to build than barracks - though the time spent building this wonder could much easier be split between cities. It depends on your situation, and how quickly you need to upgrade!

 

[Dicky_Mint]

Originally posted by Shabbaman
there might be a lot more leaders, and they won't appear as long as you already have a leader.

So maybe it's a plan to build an army and then the Heroic Epic, so you might get lotsa leaders. [/B]

In a recent game, I used the first leader to build an Army. The next, I held back for a few turns to ruch Sistine Chapel.

As soon as I rushed it, I got a leader the next turn. Again, I waited to rush a Wonder. This happened about 5 times - as soon as I used a leader that I had hung on to, I got another!

In the end I got about 7 leaders in quick succession, only ending when I won the game.

Was this a fluke, or are you more likely to get another leader if you hang on to one? I'm playing Regent at 1.21.

 

[Shabbaman]

Originally posted by Dicky_Mint

Was this a fluke, or are you more likely to get another leader if you hang on to one? I'm playing Regent at 1.21.

Well, I believe it are set chances (1/17 or something), but this seems highly unlikely with that number of occurances. Maybe it's a 1.21 'fix'... Highly interesting though.

 

[slashing]

All the "Hold for x turns" are because I didn't yet have the tech. No shields were to be wasted by any option.

Actually, I was in this situation a few days ago, but the forum was down, but I thought it would make for an interesting poll anyway.

I did indeed build an army, and quickly got another leader, with which I rushed built another army (by then, heroic epic was underway at the other end of my empire). I then had a further 2 leaders, all within the space of 50 turns (all 4 leaders). When I eventually rushed my Forbidden Palace, it made an enormous difference. It was close to the fighting on the Roman border, and military productivity pretty much doubled, right where I needed it, and I was more readily able to hold further Roman territorial gains. I also managed to rush Leonardo's which was a nice bonus. The rushes also tipped many other civilizations in fruitless wonder cascades, which is always gratifying.

I'm glad I didn't hold a leader and wait for technology before rushing. I am now a strong advocate of the "if you've got 'em, use 'em" school of Leader-ship.

Good advice on the continent-size Shabbaman, Forbidden Palace relationship. As a rule of thumb, if you find yourself building a cluster of courthouses, you probably need FP nearby.

 

[chiefpaco]

I almost hate getting my 1st leader at this time because of the number of choices available. Here's what I would do at this point:

If I am still planning on a fair bit of war:
Army. Get the Heroic Epic & generate more leaders. Use armies to crush your opponents.

If I am planning on stopping war:
FP if I have a perfect spot where I can pick up another ring of 6-8
powerhouse cities. Or, if not, Sistene is really good too.

You were also Egypt. If I were a militaristic civ instead, I'd lean towards the Army much more because of the more elite units I'd have available. Being Egypt, Sistene is great because your cathedrals are cheaper.

Sun Tsu would also be fine. I don't like to build it from scratch, but I see no harm in using your leader for that too.

I've never used a second leader on an army before. Not sure if I would have done the same as you there.

 

[foodguy]

I usually don't play militaristic civs, I'm more of a builder/co-opter, so when I get GLs (rarely), I use them to rush whatever wonders are available.

But in my last game, I decided to try to build an army (Russians, had just discovered tanks ahead of everyone else). Wow. That stack of three tanks ripped through the pre-Panzer Germans and what was left of the Chinese like nobody's business. And then I built the Heroic Epic (never did get another leader, though) and Military Academy and started churning out more tank Armies. Finally, I built the Pentagon, which increased them all to four units. Ironically, by that time I was so powerful that no one would mess with me. But it was fun to see the AI begin marshalling resources, then move 3 tank armies to the area by rail and see them instantly back off ("who me? not doin' nuttin!").

Equally ironically for a guy with so many armies, I wound up winning a diplo (Greece built the Apollo Program early and before I knew it, had 3 spaceship parts already constructed).

 

[slashing]

I just finished mopping up the last of the Romans. In retrospect, it appears that the Forbidden Palace made more of a difference to the end result than any of the armies. That said, maybe Heroic Epic got me the leaders which allowed me to rush FP.

Next in-game dilemma I'll post another poll to see how I should proceed. That said, such a dilemma looks less likely, as I'm now Civilization number 1 with all that Roman turf inside my borders - not to mention the cheap volunteer labour force (no, they're not slaves).

Sadly, my Greek allies have built themselves up too large, and picked up one or two ex-Roman cities in some awkward places. I just might have to negotiate their withdrawal...

From the game!