Whats a GOOD computer these days??

[Chopperhead]

Well I'll be buying a new computer sometime in the early new year. it will be built for me buy a local computer shop. Anyway whats a GOOD computer these days? our budget would be something around 2500-3000. This is just for the tower as I have everything else. I want something that will still be decent in 3-4 years. Currently I have a P4 2.4 Ghz, 512Mb RAM, GF 6600GT, Audigy 2 sound card.

Im in Canada so estimates and stuff plz if you can try and make it in Canadian funds.

But ya what kinda specs should I be having for this computer? I want to stick with Nvidia for Vid card Beyond that Im open for sugestion.

 

[Aeson]

What you have is pretty good already, what are you doing with it? Upgrade the RAM to 1GB+ and you should be set for most games. Then in 2 years when you start to notice a lack of performance, buy the system you would have bought now "top of the line", only then you can get it for a lot less, or get an even better system.

Even though you'll end up having to upgrade more often, you'll consistantly have a better system than necessary for current games, and pay less for it as you'll avoid all the premiums put on cutting edge components.

 

[Speedo]

Quick comment before I leave for work, will post in more detail later:

What you have is pretty good already, what are you doing with it? Upgrade the RAM to 1GB+ and you should be set for most games. Then in 2 years when you start to notice a lack of performance, buy the system you would have bought now "top of the line", only then you can get it for a lot less, or get an even better system.

A P4 2.4 is getting pretty aged now- it's 3 year old hardware after all. Expecting it to be good for 2 more years is just laughable - a game like F.E.A.R. would drive that system to its knees, even with 1GB of RAM. 2 years from now even today's top harware will be stretching to keep up.

Even though you'll end up having to upgrade more often, you'll consistantly have a better system than necessary for current games, and pay less for it as you'll avoid all the premiums put on cutting edge components.

You'll end up spending just as much in the long run.

 

[Speedo]

Ok, this is based off of my PC, which I build in September for about $2000 USD. It's updated slightly for some improved hardware that's come out, and you can probably improve things even more with your budget.

Motherboard: Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe (they seem to be hard to find though, if you can't get one go with a A8N-SLI Premium)
CPU: AMD Athlon X2 4400+
Memory: 2GB Corsair XMS, 2-3-2-6 (match 1GB pair)
Video: GF7800GTX
Sound: Creative X-Fi (just get the basic "Xtreme Music" version unless you really want the remote and junk in the other versions; it's the same card)
Storage: SATAII, whatever you need
PSU: Seasonic S12-600W

Then whatever optical drives and other minor stuff you desire.

 

[Aeson]

You don't think there are premiums put on high end components like a X2 4400+ and GF7800GTX? Price:performance almost always favors the midrange for the CPU and graphics card. At the high end you're paying $500 for a CPU that will be a $200 CPU in 2 years, $450 for a graphics card that will see a similarly steep price drop.

If he needs more performance than what he has right now, there are plenty of good options. Which is why I asked what he's using it for instead of baselessly suggest a system that's overkill in most applications. That ultra high end stuff is just a money drain. Your top of the line video card is now 2 months old and can't run with a 7800GTX 512 (even though in most applications it's all just overkill), so you paid a couple hundred dollars to have "the best" for 2 months. How much was your GTX in September btw? $500? $600?

An AMD64 3000+ will cost 1/3rd the price of the X2 4400+ but still provide 90% of the performance, generally going to be an imperceptible difference in framerates above 60fps in most games out there now. Once multi-threaded processors start being taken full advantage of by games it will be worth stepping up to an X2. By that time you could get one for half price and still not have paid as much, not to mention still having the AMD64 3000+.

RAM is a good thing to splurge on right now. It's at pretty low prices. A motherboard too, as they don't carry the extreme premiums in most cases. The PSU is good to go high end, as it can power an upgrade or two. Just not the CPU and graphics cards... their high end premiums are insane.

 

[Chopperhead]

Well my computer will be used for alot of diffrent things. Games, Internet, Banking, Work, I dunno I use my computer for everything I dont have a computer just for games or just for whatever.

But it doesnt really matter because I dont much care if it's overkill or not
Im still looking for the most computer for dollar I have to spend. Thats what the money Is saved for and lol thats where it's going so save no expense.

can someone plz explain how fast AMD prossesers equal. Like how fast is the X2 4400 compared to my old one?
Also I know nothing about motherboards could someone plz give me a brief course on whats a good Motherboard what it should have etc.

 

[Speedo]

You don't think there are premiums put on high end components like a X2 4400+ and GF7800GTX? Priceerformance almost always favors the midrange for the CPU and graphics card. At the high end you're paying $500 for a CPU that will be a $200 CPU in 2 years, $450 for a graphics card that will see a similarly steep price drop.

Like I said, if you upgrade often you'll end up paying just as much.

If he needs more performance than what he has right now, there are plenty of good options. Which is why I asked what he's using it for instead of baselessly suggest a system that's overkill in most applications. That ultra high end stuff is just a money drain.

Your opinion. I don't waste time telling people what they should spend their money on. The man says he has $2500-3000 and wants to spend on it on a computer - I tell him what he can get for his money. People who plan to spend that much on a PC have usually decided that they want the higher end stuff, and that it's worth it to them.

Your top of the line video card is now 2 months old and can't run with a 7800GTX 512 (even though in most applications it's all just overkill), so you paid a couple hundred dollars to have "the best" for 2 months.

If I was worried about having the best, I would have gotten a GF7800GTX KO (two of them, in fact) and a 4800+

 

[Aeson]

Like I said, if you upgrade often you'll end up paying just as much.

Upgrade 2x, pay 1/3 price each time. That will keep you on a similar performance path as paying 3x, upgrade 1/2 as often. (At least for a 4 year cycle. 1y vs 2y you'll be about even.)

Your opinion. I don't waste time telling people what they should spend their money on. The man says he has $2500-3000 and wants to spend on it on a computer - I tell him what he can get for his money. People who plan to spend that much on a PC have usually decided that they want the higher end stuff, and that it's worth it to them.

If he wants to spend that much it's his perogative, but I wanted to be clear on what he wanted from it. Some people would be better off splurging on one component or another (or adding specialty components) even within the same pricerange.

 

[Aeson]

But it doesnt really matter because I dont much care if it's overkill or not
Im still looking for the most computer for dollar I have to spend. Thats what the money Is saved for and lol thats where it's going so save no expense.

Well then go with something along the lines of what Speedo has suggested. You should be able to get a bit better video card or processor within your pricerange, though it will depend a lot on what kind of pricing you're getting.

can someone plz explain how fast AMD prossesers equal. Like how fast is the X2 4400 compared to my old one?

http://www23.tomshardware.com/index.html?modelx=33&model1=26&model2=57&chart=25

You can get a rough estimate here. The comparison doesn't include the X2 processors, but in most games nowdays the X2 4400+ will perform roughly similar to the top of the line AMD FX-57 in that comparison. In a year or 2 apps will start taking more advantage of the X2, and they should be much more efficient then.

 

[CruddyLeper]

can someone plz explain how fast AMD prossesers equal. Like how fast is the X2 4400 compared to my old one?

Depends what it's doing. If you're say, turning an AVI file you've downloaded into an MPEG (so you can burn it on a DVD and play it on any DVD) player then LOTS faster.

For normal desktop wordprocessing/spreadsheet usage, not much difference. That sort of work doesn't stretch your Pentium 4 very much.

Also I know nothing about motherboards could someone plz give me a brief course on whats a good Motherboard what it should have etc.

Most important thing... a good manual!

Good news about that is, you can download manuals for motherboards from manufacturers. So you can see what you get before you buy.

Physical features in order of importance;

1) A current processor socket. You can get boards with older sockets like 462 (also called Socket A), your P4's socket 478, or AMD 754. Thing is, no more new processors are coming out with those sockets.

Current ones are Intel's socket 775 or AMD's 939.

2) A current memory type, either 184 pin DDR or (Intel only for the moment) 200 pin DDR2. You cannot mix the 2 kinds, and always buy DDR at PC3200 speed (DDR400) or faster. DDR2 is a little more complex, although the standard 533 MHz speed should work with just about anything.

3) At least one PCI-E (PCI-Express) graphics card slot. nVidia's dual card system is called SLI, ATI's dual card system is called Xfire (Crossfire). SLI has been around for much longer and is more developed, although the ATI equivalent shows a lot of promise.

Now, don't dismiss a board just because you don't want dual cards now - they work fine with just one card. And it means you can go dual card later, although you never get 100% better performance with 2 cards. Just like you never get 100% better performance with dual core processors.

4) Onboard SATA connectors for SATA hard drives. Most bang per byte of storage. RAID versions are available - 2 (or more drives) in a RAID 0 give you the space of only one drive, but increased speed. 2 (or more drives) in a RAID 1 give you the space of only one drive but much better security (because if one goes bad, the other one steps in straight away).

5) Other connectors - depends what your needs are. Practrically all boards today come with network connectors - RJ45, similar to a fat phone socket. Oh, and USB connectors for webcams, printers, scanners etc. Usually, there is a socket or two on the motherboard itself to fit connectors for front panel USB connectors mounted on the case. Same with front panel audio connectors.

6) A motherboard is never better than the power supply unit connected to it. I cannot stress this enough. Do not get a cheap power supply, get an Enermax or similar spec. Even if you don't use 2 PCI-E graphics cards, it makes sense to get the biggest, baddest PSU you can - because that will be a lot more stable over time than a 30 buck job designed to JUST about last the length of the 1st year warranty.

Oh yeah, few websites;

http://www.asus.com.tw

http://www.abit.com.tw

http://www.asrock.com.tw

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw



Happy hunting!

 

[Chopperhead]

Thanks for the Replys guys.

I cant just upgrade the computer I have because we are looking at getting a completly new computer. As Im moving out next summer and My current computer will be coming with me and the new one will be staying with my parents. Thats why I cant just upgrade.

Oh i almost forgot, Should i be looking at AGP (currently what I have) or ..............?

 

[Chopperhead]

After doing alittle looking around so far this is what I have come up with.

A8N-SLI Premium MotherBoard - $215

BFG GeForce 7800 GT OC 256MB - $478

Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeMusic 24-bit Crystalizer Dolby Digital EX Decoding Sound Card - $154

1024MB PC4300 DDR2 533MHz (2) - $228

Maxtor DiamondMax 10 SATA/150 300GB 7200RPM 16MB Cache- $160

Asus 52X CD-ROM Drive - $19

Benq DW1625 16X DVD+/-RW With Light Scribe Technology - $70

Mitsumi 7 in 1 Internal USB2.0 Flash Media + Floppy Drive- $30

Antec® Phantom 350 - 350W ATX12V v.2.0 Power Supply- $199

AMD® Athlon™ 64 X2 4200+ - $495

Total = $2048

I figure Im probably forgeting some things so feel free to let me know what I have forgot. anyway how am I doing with what I have pick out?

 

[Speedo]

1024MB PC4300 DDR2 533MHz (2) - $228

You will need DDR RAM, not DDR2.

Antec® Phantom 350 - 350W ATX12V v.2.0 Power Supply- $199

That PSU is a bit on the low end for that system. Shoot for something like an Antec Neopower 480W.

Other than those things that should be a solid system.

 

[Aeson]

Oh i almost forgot, Should i be looking at AGP (currently what I have) or ..............?

Definitely go PCI-express over AGP for the motherboard and graphics card. The SLI motherboard and the 7800GT are PCI-express, so you have that covered.

Antec® Phantom 350 - 350W ATX12V v.2.0 Power Supply- $199

Probably want a better power supply. I'm not sure exactly how much juice that setup will draw, but to be safe 500W. If you ever plan on running another 7800GT in SLI you may even need more. (Otherwise, no reason to get the SLI board.)

Asus 52X CD-ROM Drive - $19

Benq DW1625 16X DVD+/-RW With Light Scribe Technology - $70

Just making sure... do you specifically want 2 CD-ROM capable drives? The DVD drive is a 40X CD-ROM drive as well.

1024MB PC4300 DDR2 533MHz (2) - $228
...
AMD® Athlon™ 64 X2 4200+ - $495

Going with a AMD, you won't be using DDR2. DDR400 (PC3200) will do unless you plan on overclocking. You could be able to get 2x1GB PC3200 @ 2-3-2-5 for around that price anyways.

--------------

Do you have a monitor for the computer already? Case? Mouse? Keyboard? Speakers? If you're dropping $2k+ on a system, don't mask it behind a cheap display and speakers!

 

[vbraun]

That is an affuly expensive power supply for such little wattage. My 520W was only $130 and it is a very nice power supply. (link)

 

[Maniacal]

If you don't want your old comp I'll have it.

 

[Speedo]

Just making sure... do you specifically want 2 CD-ROM capable drives? The DVD drive is a 40X CD-ROM drive as well.

It's very useful... I have 3 optical drives in my comp

If you ever plan on running another 7800GT in SLI you may even need more. (Otherwise, no reason to get the SLI board.)

Essentially all of the high end AMD boards will be SLI. The extra features are worth it.

 

[Chopperhead]

Ya I already have everything else Moniter, Mouse Keyboard etc. got a 19in moniter and an altec lansing sound system. Has like 6 speakers and a subwoofer. ( I dont have it conected right now cause I dont have enough room for my speakers on the current desk I have lol).

The only thing I dont have I guess is a case. I never really though about that.
does it matter? I dont think what case is very important at all but Im probably wrong lol

Replacement stuff per your recomendations:

Ultra X-finity 500-W PSU - $95

Corsair 2048MB PC3200 DDR RAM- $269.99

Brings price to about $1986

Not to bad at all

Also would a Power protecter be worthwile?

ULTRA 1000VA UPS - $80

 

[Aeson]

It's very useful... I have 3 optical drives in my comp

The question was how many does he want/need, not how many can be useful. Otherwise we'd all be stuck with huge burner arrays...

Essentially all of the high end AMD boards will be SLI. The extra features are worth it.

Depends on whether or not he's using the extra features. For someone not putting their own computer together (and asking us ), could pretty much rule out all the overclocking stuff. Going with one hard drive and not planning on ever setting up a RAID, could rule out all the RAID stuff (especially secondary RAID). Dual LAN may or may not be useful. Same with onboard 1394. The onboard audio isn't really a consideration in this case. And of course, if SLI isn't going to ever be used, neither is it. There are wide array of options to choose from when going with a solid MB. Every extra costs, whether it's used or not.

Depending on what he needs, he might be able to step down to a MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum, ASUS A8N-E, or even further without losing anything he's going to use or notice, and save another $60 or more to upgrade some other component that would be used and noticed.

 

[Chopperhead]

LOL I would answer you on whether we would actually use any of the features your talking about Ie RAID or SLI but I have no idea what your talking about so if someone could fill me in that would be helpfull thanks.

And No I didnt relise that the DVD drive also had CD Rom drive in it as well I dont need 2. I dont think anyway what good would having more then one do? It's not like you can play to diffrent disks at the same time. can you?

On another note My old computer as in the one before my current computer is a Hewitt Packard, P3 800Mhz, Intel 82810 Graphics Controller, 255Mb RAM ( this sounds like an odd number ), Win ME, Cmedia 8738 6 channel PCI sound card.
What Im wondering is if I could scavenge the RAM off of it to upgrade my current computer. Well first off Im not sure how fast that RAM is so Can someone tell me away to figure that out without the Internet. Will it be labeled on the RAM itself? But the main thing is, is this computer still worth anything today? Because if it's worth like $50 then I will just scavenge some bits off of it but if it could still bring in a few hundred then i will end up selling it so...... ya thanks for your help so far.