whats so great about communism?

Originally posted by sav
i mean in the game :p

Does anyone actually use it? apart from getting veteran spies (not such a big deal in my opinion, any spy is good), isnt communism just a crap form of fundy? (in the game, remember...!) like a compromise between republic and fundy...?

i personally never use it. should i consider it?
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I like using Communism on large maps, because it keeps the corruption factor low as my empire spreads out into various strategic locations away from my capital in order to flank an enemy empire. Having the UN wonder and the veteran spy are also critical components to my victories, especially against rapid expansion empires such as the British.
 
But communism in real life has a lot of corruption, because of a black market in iilicit goods like coffee and clothes, so why doesn't this game have the amount of corruption it does in real life?
 
Originally posted by President Clark
But communism in real life has a lot of corruption, because of a black market in iilicit goods like coffee and clothes, so why doesn't this game have the amount of corruption it does in real life?
Click to expand...

I think the government systems in the game itself are of the theorhetical variety.

Communism as an idea would work well, but in practice, we've seen it leaves something to be desired.
 
All units, improvemetns, * even forms of gov't are abstractions... that is, tehy represent something in general in real life... but not an exact model :)

Communism is an abstraction of several gov't, adapted for gameplay balance in Civ 2.
 
someone wrote: "Also, Republic is rubbish, in every respect and is not a good idea... EVER."

hey! i ALWAYS use te republic. in my games (emperor level) i'm usually one of the top 3 civs for power, im not one of these players who wins easily every time - i've only managed to rule the world completely once at this level. so for a player who isnt like god incarnate, isn't republic a fairly good govt? i sometimes even get it around the same time as monarchy, and dive straight in. then, i usually keep it right up until i (often unsuccessfully) switch to democracy. It earns faster than monarchy, researches quicker and as long as you stay out of war... why wouldn't one use the republic b4 demo? it comes 2000 years or so earlier sometimes! (yeah, if things go horribly wrong around 1AD)

hehe. i find it odd someone would say outright never ever to use republic, when its a huge part of my own personal strategy :) then again, i've only ever completely ruled the world at emperor level once :p

stoopid long drawn out mountainous wars... will try commie in my current game methinks, i haven't played for a while though so im a bit rusty. as the japanese, got off to a really slow start, but sneaking looks at the powergraph, it's bending upwards wildly :) lets see if communism really is all its cracked up to be (in the game :p)
 
Good day for all!
I'm newbie in this thread, forum & site, than excuse me if I'll repeat something that have already said about this topic.

Well, I want to say that I'm not the fan of Communist government in this game & in reality. I know what I'm saying because I was born in Moscow, live in Moscow & want to stay here until my end.
I think that no one in sane mind prefer Communist government to Democracy if he has valid choice. Problem is - very often you haven't this choice - in your game, or in your reality.

I don't like any political talk then I want to stay in the Game terms. I'm very old fan of the Game & now I can't have any trills from it if my game level is below Deity. Last years I prefer to play only "real terrain" games - resemling actual forms of our Earth. I must to say that I'm almost always go for Communist government if I'm playing "as Russian".
Let's imagine this Standart Russian game on "Deity" level. Let's use world.mp map from CivMGE package with fixed start points for Nations. (Resource & hut distributions can be random.)
Define your computer opponents:
White - Russian (you)
Green - Babylonians
(it's important - they simulate Turks, Perses, Turkestan and any other south Russian neighbourghs of "reality")
Blue - German or French
(German - preferrably, because they are less aggressive in ancient times, but becomes main threat in modern)
Yellow - Egypt
(it's important because you need some "plug" in Sinai for any "big" powers can't to "siphon" their early pressure in Africa)
Azure - China
(it's most important Nation because Huan-he - Yang-tse basin is "natural" fortress & any nomads will be repelled from East Asia to West by this Nation)
Orange - England
(it's important because England is island & Englishmen of this Game will become most formidable sea-threat in no time. By the way - first of all Englishmen of this game will "find America" and main part of England nation will be placed in American continent ;) (Surprised?)
Purple - Mongol
(main pesk or Russian civilization - "Russia" of the Game hasn't any natural borders before waves of "Mongol" onslaught, and "Mongol" must to press on West, because "China" press them from East & Mongols haven't any "natural" walls before Chine slow advance into steppes).

Let's the Game begin!

Your strategy or "style" can be anyone, and it's advisable to go up technology tree as high as possible, because very soon you will be attacked from 3 sides: by German from West, Babylonian - South & Mongol from East. I always can make peace with German after some "little bloodshed" & secure some borders there. Usually I can found some compromise with Babylonians - they "canalize" their agression into empty Indostan (story of Great Mughals of "reality") & after that will meet with Chinese in South-East Asia. But Mongols... It's real menace for my poor Russians! All resources of my country will be poured in military in no time. My settlers wil create roads & irrigation & all will be pillaged mercilessly by bloody "Mongol" nomads! (In some parts of my brain I can understand that unlucky "Mongols" is pressed from their lands by very strong "Chinese", but I can't see "Chinese" & "Mongol" drive to West is - just their own evil intentions. If you want to feel real Hate, playing the Game - try this disposition - it's real hard feelings, when "heathen" destroy your roads, pillage your lands & burn your cities...
When you wipe out bloody Mongols completely (you will do it of course, because if you play Game by your heart - so much burns & pillagings deserve only complete extermination this bloody bastards) you will find that your science is very backward (compared to Germany & England, because these Nations hadn't big military expences), your lands is poor (Mongols sacked most beautiful & productive lands on your south), your military is outdated. What can you do?
Simple scientific development will make you complete outsider - your roads is crashed and trade output is scarse, then you must begin some military conquest for new technology. Your military is outdated in comparison with your neighbours then you must make war in "cannonmeat waves" fashion. Your East neighbour - China is very far for your producing centers & West neighbour - Germany is superior in military technology. Then you have only one option - South, or Babylonians. By the way some of this "Muslims" had courage to create their cities in your former territories that was ravaged by Mongols. It's good cause for war, but better cause is - remain parts of your ancient roadnet let you transport your weak but numerous armies with speed of lightning (OK - very slow lightning ;). Numerous "Russian-Turkish wars" of "reality" just begins!
OK, you smashed unlucky Babylonians - what's next? Very important thing is - you didn't wipe Babs as Mongols, because this war - isn't for your hard feelings, but for technology improvements & lebensraum. You can develop your civilization & improve terrain now. When you will have any chance you must go to more advanced Government then Monarchy.
Will it be Democracy or Republic? Definitely - No, because your country is great & dangers from neighbours is real (Babs want some revanche all time around!). You must have relative big military for take Babs in bay. Strange paradox, - you begin to produce really expensive war toys, because your technology allow it & yor fear your German neighbor, but all your wars is against Babs, or Chinese which have inferior armies in comparison with you, but like to attack your little & poor defensed cities on far south & east borders. You must pour great part of your "shields" for your great & expensive army that in most part takes its time by wiggling its thumbs. (It's very unadvisable to try German strength, because your armies is superior to Chinese, or Babs, but bloody inferior to English, or German ;). Republic & Democracy "spend" your "shields" on military maintenance, but you can't allow it! By the way - your roadnet is inferior yet, then gifts of Democracy - isn't so good as you wish in your case.
Can you be Fundy? No - strictly. Your military has already been inferior to western counterparts & Germany begin "lebensraum thirsty" - it's question of your survival in this time! You must to have good science output, or - simply die!
Then you convert to Communist government. No any good feeling for Communism - it's just a business. It's just question of Life & Death - no more, no less.
Then if you survive great German onslaught, & can rise your western (most productive & developed due to long Peace on West border) cities, you can convert to Democracy. If you can - you must to know - you've just won most bloody & cruel variant of the Game. Don't mind your Score or Percentage - they wil be low. I promise you :)

If you want to try Communist government with a reason - it's most sure way to do it. Enjoy! If you can...

P.S. Don't save & reload - it's not sportsmanlike manner ;)
Main reason to avoid repetitive reloading - Mongol cavalry isn't great threat under heavy reloading & you very soon will be Democrat without any problem! Alas, we can't make any "reloads" in "reality" - then be more sportsman in the Game!
 
Interesting idea and welcome to the site!

It sounds to tempting to play like that but I have to say that I'd prefer to have the Zulus as the green civ to make things more interesting. I feel sure that the Egyptians would soon colonise the Middle East so missing the Babylonians would not make so much of a difference unless you are determined to have them from a historical standpoint. The others civs do tend to settle towards your civ so the Egyptians would fill in where the Babs had been and the Zulus would make the rest of Africa their own. I wouldn't give England much of a chance until they get to America though so I'd be tempted to give them Mapmaking at the start of the game so they are not wiped out as soon as the Germans get it.
 
Dear Duke of York!

I've tried any combinations & can say that in case Zulu instead of Babilonians, enemy pressure on you is lightened. Cause of it is - Zulu very slowly reach Egypt for Egypt make any reasonable pressure on your Russia from the South. Computer is great opportunist - it don't want to fight you especially, but likes to do it if it has good cause. If AI can move it's Settlers in new territories without war it does it.
If I have Zulu opponent, I've get some Egyptian cities in India - not in Delta of Volga or even up North in Babs case. (Maybe Egyptians - more peaceful then Babs in this conditions ;).
Another case is Mongol behaviour. Their onslaught on my Civ is lessened significantly. Reason of it, - Mongols streams on "empty" Indostan as well as Egyptians. I think it's time matter - I didn't explain result of my "Mongolian" wars previously, but told that it was wrong decision to send big army against China. Reason is - "Mongolian" wars of "Russia" always stopped abruptly - in midst of war fun you've got strange message: "Mongol civilization is destroyed by Russian/Babylonians/Chinese" & you wonder - after very strong assault Mongols simply disappearing into thin air! Only after couple of tens turns, when you arrive to Far East you find that Karakorum is - China town. When, why, or under what conditions - is mystery clovered in dark. (But I always remember story of Chinese massacring of Dzhungarian Khanates - and wonder...) In another words - "Mongols" are "bad boys" of the game because their thirst of expansion under very strong pressure from China, Russia & Babylon. Take out Babylon & Monlols will ravage you from Indostan - till modern time.
About Germany & England situation - I can't tell anything definitely, but I think your words is partial truth. I told that main part of "England" always in America continent. It's truth. But another truth is - very often British islands is part of "Germany", when I reach them. It's interesting, but in almost always my games under this condition main part of "Germany" is - in Afrika (South Afrika to be exact, because North Afrika - is under Egypt. Sorry, to be exact North Afrika is under German rule as well as South, but German cities on North have Egyptian names ;). It's strange but I almost never found any German towns on another continents, and Englishmen usually take over America & Australia without German complaints :) I don't know why, but it seems to me that Germany of my games don't go to ship-voyage technologies after Map Making at all. (I can tell it by condition of my diplomatic screen.) Usually I can't contact England (as well as China) very long then I don't know about it's development & situation until very late & it's no difference in this moment. I think that England is "closed" in her island & must have to found Map Making as soon as possible. After first landing on "german soil" & some bloodshedding England must have to reach her Caravels or be history. But Germany don't need any Caravels - Triremes for them is OK & in case taking over English cities German prefer take over other technologies. Maybe I'm wrong.

Oh, in my first Reply I said: "Then if you survive great German onslaught, & can rise your western (most productive & developed due to long Peace on West border) cities, you can convert to Democracy." I miss couple of very important words. Sentence must to be read as:
"Then if you survive great German onslaught, & can rise your western (most productive & developed due to long Peace on West border) cities FROM THE DUST, you can convert to Democracy."
It's big difference - do you know? ;)

Sincerely yours Alex.



Another cause of my preference Babs over Zulu is - continuous war of attrition between Babs & Egypt. This constant war suck in great part of resources of both countries & it is the reason their science backwarding in more recent times. In Zulu variant Egypt & Zuly become more advanced & powerful.
 
Good day for all!
I'm newbie in this thread, forum & site, than excuse me if I'll repeat something that have already said about this topic.

Well, I want to say that I'm not the fan of Communist government in this game & in reality. I know what I'm saying because I was born in Moscow, live in Moscow & want to stay here until my end.
Click to expand...


Welcome to CFC, A_Bashkuev! :)

Your posts are excellent, and very interesting!!


it's real hard feelings, when "heathen" destroy your roads, pillage your lands & burn your cities...
When you wipe out bloody Mongols completely (you will do it of course, because if you play Game by your heart - so much burns & pillagings deserve only complete extermination this bloody bastards)
Click to expand...
That is so very true, Bashkuev! I would not tolerate such pillaging either!!!


Se played a GOTM with this map (Game of the Month) about a year ago -- the Civ we played was Orange (English). I just found it... it was GOTM07, located here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5134



And here is where people talked about their game experience (called a "Spoiler" thread because it tells of details in the game):

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5135




You might enjoy reading how things progressed from the English point of view ;). But the names of the Civilizations were not the same as yours.


Communism is a good middle-ground compromise between Democracy and Fundamentalism, especially if war must continue at the same time as some science.

:)
 
You can get the same information from the demographics screen in the world menu if you want. You have to think a bit but it'll tell you the same thing almost. It is better than cheating by saving the game and then using the foreign advisor to reveal all the other civs' maps, which some unscrupulous people do. Population is quite a good guide in the demographics to see who your competitors will be. If you're not first then you'll have a job on your hands, especially if you see which other civs have which wonders, what their length of military service is and, of course, the messages that say: "The Babylonians have destroyed the Aztec civilization". These should give you a fair idea of what the rest of the game is like, even though you can't see the other civs. :goodjob:
 
If you have the SOL wonder, then in DEM you don't need to worry about senates anymore. If you let your first city out of order for two turns, then for a small price of losing one city's productivity for two turns (it can still support units though), you'll get a 0-turn revolution, which will let you change to FUNDY, back stab other civs, rush build units cheaper (assume you have the tech of fundamentalism, then you can build fanatics), then switch back to DEM all in the same turn. This trick works in none-Oedo years only (i.e., if you keep a city riot for two turns and the current turn is an Oedo year, then you'll get anarchy instead of a 0-turn revolution).
 
Originally posted by Xin Yu
... you'll get a 0-turn revolution...
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This is news to me -- and as a confirmed toggler, I will speak for some that this discovery raises the value of SoL. Hmm is there a thread where I can learn a little more about the specifics? I’m thinking that by first city, you mean the capital or some other anciently created city, one that is reported last as the computer runs through the turn’s updates city by city. Thus the last city in the updates causes the uproar & one can go play dirty….

Does the game version make a difference? I often switch between MGE & Classic (although my classic is version 2.4, not 2.42)?
 
Welcome Bashkuev! Nice to see one from Moscow on here! :)

sav! Nice to see a third Playstation Civver! :)

I personally still have trouble with Communism... If my cities are fairly well along as far as structure goes, I lose money every turn, or my science drops horrendously low. Aside from caravans, I'd quickly drop behind others in tech... And I surely would like to play a real world map but not possible on Playstation... :(
 
And I surely would like to play a real world map but not possible on Playstation..
Click to expand...
We look forward to you and the other PS users being able to get/use a PC so you can DL & play the games! :)
 
Well, the conditions for a 0-turn revolution is:

Has SOL
representative government (DEM or REP)
not an Oedo year (defined as turns whose number can be divided by 4)
one city has been in riot at the previous turn and it will continue to be in riot this turn

When it comes to the player's turn, cities are going to be processed one by one following reverse of the city order shown in the window when you press F1 (or F4, F5). When the riot city is processed, it will trigger government collapse, hence from that city on all cities' productivity will be lost for this turn (that's why you should use the first city to triger the revolution). Then when all cities have been processed, if it is not an Oedo year you get to choose government. Once that happens within the same turn you can revolt multiple times and change government multiple times (i.e., you can choose FUNDY then change back to DEM). However if the current turn is an Oedo year you cannot choose government and have to wait till next turn (you'll lose next turn's productivity for all cities).
 
by Xin Yu:
Well, the conditions for a 0-turn revolution is:

Has SOL
representative government (DEM or REP)
...
Click to expand...
I do not think a 0 turn revolution will work in a Republic, since a city in Riot will not trigger an government collapse (e.g., this is a technique for Democracy Only).

There are some caveats and downsides to zero turn revolutions (ZTRs).

All cities are stored in order of founding (unless a city is destroyed & some civ makes a new one, which will replace the destroyed one in the matrix)... which means that if you build the SoL in your first city (assuming you have not yet captured AI cities), there may eventually be other cities that appear on the list ahead of your SoL as you capture the cities founded ahead of yours.

It you are White, and found your capital in BC4000, you will be guaranteed to have the #1 spot throughout the game, unless that city is destroyed. Once the SoL is built, more than one city may go into Anarchy before emerging from a 0-turn revolution as you capture enemy cities (you can look to see if the newly acquired cities appear ahead of your SoL city).

Unfortunately, many SSCs are also the first city founded in your empire, which means you lose the SSC science output, too (assuming the SSC is still the #1 city in your empire when you build the SoL in it). :( Also, the SoL city may be surprisingly difficult to Riot without hurting your other cities (in a good democracy).

Only when the democracy collapses will the gov't change be allowed, so it is not continiously available each turn. It is not something that you can to tactically.

it will trigger government collapse, hence from that city on all cities' productivity will be lost...
Click to expand...
More specifically, gold and science will not be collected, and resources will be computed under Anarchy gov't. You will collect luxuries, shields and food. Attached settlers will eat 1 food.

Sooo... the 0-Turn revolution can work, but takes careful planning.

Personally, I have never used ZTRs except in tests... I just prefer the built-in challenges of wars & Democracy :).
 
starlifter: Unless a city has Shakspear wonder, it is fairly easy to make it unhappy under DEM: Just let it host enough out-of city units.

I'm not sure about the REP thing, never tested. So I trust your word since you often do thourough tests.

Since we both are in Seattle, maybe sometime we can meet at Starbucks?
 
Communism assures stability at home while you deal in 'foreign entanglements' abroad. You can declare war at will and build as big an army as you want without worrying about unhappy citizens bothering you at home when they really should be supporting the war effort and not participating in trying to topple their own government.
 
Then I'd prefer fundamentalism, since more units are supported, they never become unhappy, and there's a lot more cash.
But democracy and war is hardly ever a problem:) JSB, Mike's and luxuries will keep all cities happy, the problem is to keep all cities celebrating:)
 
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