What's your favourite starting position?

[harlonreinlu]

Curious how you guys have been tailoring your games to your preferred playstyles. I've been playing Aztecs on this mod exclusively for the past year, it's the only way I've found to overcome the early game gold/faith/culture deficit, so you can imagine how specific my taste has become for the first turn. Also curious if anyone restarts the game until they get a good starting position, I've done this for up to half an hour as I refuse to try and prosper in god forsaken tundra or desert. But yeah, I've only ever gotten a few starts that I consider S tier, that being flood plains with multiple rivers and some great resource like salt or gold (I disable start bias ofc). Deity is so difficult, if I'm gonna put days into a game I want the best chance possible. Wondering what starts you guys prefer, and with what civs, I'm looking to try something new.

 

[greenfieldpark]

As you say, if you are going to spend many hours on a game, no use playing a doomed game with a terrible start.

However you have to balance having a fair start with a perfect start. I find myself getting greedy amd that can lead to 30 min of restarts like you mention.

Also used to use in game editor mod, to further ensure a good start by adding a few things.

I am now way less picky/cheaty and find it much more rewarding.

As for what starts i like? Basically no jungle. Jungle is trash as no future revealed resources spawn on jungle. No deer or anything.

Forrest is fine.

Pure tundra or desert is a restart but some is fine.

My ideal would be very production/hill heavy with a few growth tiles.

 

[rkkn]

I have a few rules for myself on restarts. I try to just take whatever it gives me, but if I'm trying for a specific strategy and the start would make going for it nearly impossible (or just very annoying), I'll restart. After a restart, if my start looks too good, then I'll restart again. to try to balance out the fact that if you restart on bad starts you'll have better than average starts on average. If it's good twice in a row, then whatever. that's fine.

An ideal start has a lot of production and some 4 yield tiles. For example, a bunch of lake tiles with lapis or marble or surrounded by plains forest. Or plains salt. Or almost any start with sea luxuries. Bonus points if the extra non-monopoly luxury is also sea.

"Favorite" start would probably be plains forest with a lake and a lot of hills (forested hills), and either 4+ tiles away from coast, or on the coast and on a bay. Being land locked but too close to the coast to settle a city on the coast is annoying. As is being coastal but with only a 1 tile strip of coastal water before it turns to ocean.

 

[msw1]

I'll restart if I'm playing a civ that benefits from a specific improvement or tile type and my start has little to none of that. For example if I'm playing Polynesia, I'll restart until I get some luxury sea resources nearby. The fun part of the game to me is trying to use each civ's unique bonuses to win, so it's no fun if I can't use them all because of a bad start.

 

[greenfieldpark]

I have a few rules for myself on restarts. I try to just take whatever it gives me, but if I'm trying for a specific strategy and the start would make going for it nearly impossible (or just very annoying), I'll restart. After a restart, if my start looks too good, then I'll restart again. to try to balance out the fact that if you restart on bad starts you'll have better than average starts on average. If it's good twice in a row, then whatever. that's fine.

An ideal start has a lot of production and some 4 yield tiles. For example, a bunch of lake tiles with lapis or marble or surrounded by plains forest. Or plains salt. Or almost any start with sea luxuries. Bonus points if the extra non-monopoly luxury is also sea.

"Favorite" start would probably be plains forest with a lake and a lot of hills (forested hills), and either 4+ tiles away from coast, or on the coast and on a bay. Being land locked but too close to the coast to settle a city on the coast is annoying. As is being coastal but with only a 1 tile strip of coastal water before it turns to ocean.

Any start with sea luxuries? I usually dont like sea lux due to the expense of making one use work boats instead of workers that last rhe whole game. Also fpcus on bottom techs early game and fishing slows me down in that regard.

Im wondering if im incorrect.

 

[msw1]

Any start with sea luxuries? I usually dont like sea lux due to the expense of making one use work boats instead of workers that last rhe whole game. Also fpcus on bottom techs early game and fishing slows me down in that regard.

Im wondering if im incorrect.

I think it depends. Crab and coral are probably the best early game monopolies. Whales is one of the best mid to late game monopolies. Pearls is pretty bad (though it does give the civilized jewelers corporation I think, which imo is by far the best corporation). But even surviving for that long will be rough.

 

[rkkn]

pearls monopoly dramatically speeds up founding your religion, since sea monopolies come on line extremely fast if you make it a priority. And it also gives culture, which is otherwise hard to get. So it's good.
But it is indeed weak for the first 35 or so turns. The base yields are bad.

 

[andersw]

Depends a bit which difficulty, patch and civ I play but I would prefer atleast 1-2 3food tiles and 1-2 decent prod tiles.
Sometimes I restart if I get too good flood plains start.
Typical restarts, only hills no food, grassland start with no triple food or hills, low food plantation starts.
But fav as best, probably desert floodplains with wheat and gold on hills.

 

[andersw]

pearls monopoly dramatically speeds up founding your religion, since sea monopolies come on line extremely fast if you make it a priority. And it also gives culture, which is otherwise hard to get. So it's good.
But it is indeed weak for the first 35 or so turns. The base yields are bad.

If you have other food/prod to combine with the pearls, then its great, also depends if you have enough spots to validate god of the sea, then its really nice.

 

[Diomedes_]

Tea, Coffee, Gold, Lapis, Citrus, and Salt are my favorite luxes as they give such nice yields and monopoly bonuses. If I'm going for a tradition game I love having a GA lux (i.e. Gold, Lapis, or Jade) as well as Marble and/or Stone in the capital, but any of the non-gold +10% luxes are also great for tradition play so I'm not super picky. Progress games are great for the mining/camp luxes as if you get a gold ruin, buy a worker, and go for the free worker policy first you can get an absurdly early monopoly and great capital yields in the right conditions. For Authority games I obviously love strategic-heavy starts as getting strat monopolies on Iron and Horses is just such a buff to aggressive play, beyond just having a practically unlimited ability to train Sword/Mounted units. The production-heavy luxes like Tea are also fantastic, and the tile-yield monopolies become so much stronger because you're working so many more of the tiles due to having more cities.

Hill starts are also just so much stronger than flatland starts in my experience. Even if I have a good luxury, if I'm playing a Tradition civ I'll restart a jungle start as I don't want to have to waste science on going to Bronze Working. I also don't like super hilly terrain if I'm going authority as I want to be able to move my units around quickly to war and tribute.

The ideal tradition start to me would probably be a floodplains start with a fair amount of wheat, single-tile ocean access and minimal ocean tiles in working range (for defense and GPTI maximization), Lapis as the main lux with Marble as the secondary, with a nearby stone and maybe a fish or two. Go Monument, Stonehenge, Shrine, Granary, then Mausoleum (if I can get the second policy quickly enough)

The ideal progress start to me would probably be on a hill next to a river in forest, Silver for the main lux and one of the camp luxes for the secondary, and lots of deer. Could be in plains forest or tundra forest, both offer good pantheon choices.

The ideal authority start to me would probably be on a hill (fresh water optional, as early wells are kinda great for authority IMO) in plains with scattered forest, Tea for the main lux and Ivory for the secondary, lots of horses and iron, and maybe a lake for an early growth tile.

There are definitely some insane terrain/pantheon combos that make just about any start good for any playstyle though (thinking Tundra forest with Stars and Sky, Purity with Sugar marshes and lakes, God of the Sea with Pearls monopoly).

 

[rkkn]

Any start with sea luxuries? I usually dont like sea lux due to the expense of making one use work boats instead of workers that last rhe whole game. Also fpcus on bottom techs early game and fishing slows me down in that regard.

Im wondering if im incorrect.

oh I missed this

work boats do have the disadvantage of needing to keep building them, but you gain a lot of speed in return. A boat costs half as much production as a worker, and builds the improvement instantly. That means you get your improvement 10+ turns sooner. And if you are comparing building 1 worker vs 2 work boats, there's an even bigger speed advantage on the second improvement. About 15 turns. From the 3rd improvement on, you now have to pay more production, but you've already won 25 turns of extra yields. And with a 3rd work boat vs just leaving it to the 1 worker, you're getting that 3rd improvement faster still. About 20 turns faster on improvement 3. I'll gladly pay 40 production for that if the resource I'm improving is good and/or getting me closer to a monopoly.

But yes, if the reason I booted up the game in the first place was to try a bottom side tech strat, then getting a sea luxury is annoying. (And possibly gets me to restart)

 

[greenfieldpark]

oh I missed this

work boats do have the disadvantage of needing to keep building them, but you gain a lot of speed in return. A boat costs half as much production as a worker, and builds the improvement instantly. That means you get your improvement 10+ turns sooner. And if you are comparing building 1 worker vs 2 work boats, there's an even bigger speed advantage on the second improvement. About 15 turns. From the 3rd improvement on, you now have to pay more production, but you've already won 25 turns of extra yields. And with a 3rd work boat vs just leaving it to the 1 worker, you're getting that 3rd improvement faster still. About 20 turns faster on improvement 3. I'll gladly pay 40 production for that if the resource I'm improving is good and/or getting me closer to a monopoly.

But yes, if the reason I booted up the game in the first place was to try a bottom side tech strat, then getting a sea luxury is annoying. (And possibly gets me to restart)

Good insight. Playing this game as often as i do, my brain often goes on autopilot. Its good to keep reevaluating different options.

 

[andersw]

oh I missed this

work boats do have the disadvantage of needing to keep building them, but you gain a lot of speed in return. A boat costs half as much production as a worker, and builds the improvement instantly. That means you get your improvement 10+ turns sooner. And if you are comparing building 1 worker vs 2 work boats, there's an even bigger speed advantage on the second improvement. About 15 turns. From the 3rd improvement on, you now have to pay more production, but you've already won 25 turns of extra yields. And with a 3rd work boat vs just leaving it to the 1 worker, you're getting that 3rd improvement faster still. About 20 turns faster on improvement 3. I'll gladly pay 40 production for that if the resource I'm improving is good and/or getting me closer to a monopoly.

But yes, if the reason I booted up the game in the first place was to try a bottom side tech strat, then getting a sea luxury is annoying. (And possibly gets me to restart)

Add that with the current crazy tribute gold you'll have workboats out in no time.

 

[ryanmusante]

I like a secluded tundra rich , cold area. I want to build up and come at people from the poles. And hide, defend behind mountains, hills and terrain that is difficult to pass.

 

[Remos]

Why are lakes ideal?
I just started on this beauty with two lakes in the middle, but don't yet get why they matter that much.

 

[harlonreinlu]

That hill in between the lakes is such a nice city location.

Lakes provide the same yield as plains river farm, 3 food and 1 production, which is increased twice by water wheels and windmills, making them high yield without the need for workers.

 

[azum4roll]

Starting adjacent to a lake or oasis (but not river) allows you to build Well instead of Water Mill, and still unlocks access to Baths. You'll miss the river bonus, but you can always send trade routes from another city or use cargo ships instead.

 

[harlonreinlu]

Starting adjacent to a lake or oasis (but not river) allows you to build Well instead of Water Mill, and still unlocks access to Baths. You'll miss the river bonus, but you can always send trade routes from another city or use cargo ships instead.

That can't be right? If your city is directly adjacent, it counts as fresh water.

 

[Remos]

That can't be right? If your city is directly adjacent, it counts as fresh water.

Wouldn't a watermill require hydropower to work? Makes sense to me.
In any case, it seems you don't need to be exactly next to fresh water to build a well. I'm one tile away from one and can still build it.

 

[rkkn]

That can't be right? If your city is directly adjacent, it counts as fresh water.

In any case, it seems you don't need to be exactly next to fresh water to build a well. I'm one tile away from one and can still build it.

Well doesn't have anything to do with fresh water.
Next to river (specifically river) = water mill
not next to river = well

a lake is not a river, so if you are next to a lake (and not also next to a river) you get a well, but still get the other benefits of fresh water

next to no sources of fresh water at all also = well, because there's no river in that case. this is the case for the screen shot above. the city does not have fresh water and thus can't build baths and only gets 2 food for the base food yield. the lake 2 tiles away isn't doing anything. has to be adjacent