What's your idealized society's protection against mob mentality/herd thinking?

[Synobun]

The question posed by the thread title seems sort of silly. Isn't the purpose of society to foster "herd" thinking?

For the most part. But ideally this herd mentality should be developed through individual choice/reasoning. Keyword being ideally. That isn't often the case, and a lot of the time our common core beliefs and viewpoints are enforced through inertia.

 

[Mouthwash]

For the most part. But ideally this herd mentality should be developed through individual choice/reasoning. Keyword being ideally. That isn't often the case, and a lot of the time our common core beliefs and viewpoints are enforced through inertia.

Counterpoint: the happiest, most successful society in America is based on conformity, limited education and biblical fundamentalism.

 

[Synobun]

That point seems unrelated to anything I said.

 

[Hygro]

Mouthwash is demonstrating the different branches of "ideally" and how they have different roots.

 

[Mouthwash]

Yeah, why dismiss happiness, social cohesion and health if it doesn't encourage you to Be Yourself?

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Uhhhh, yeah. Zing!... I guess.

Yeah.

Kinda my point.

Like... exactly my point.......

Huh.

http://archive.ipu.org/wmn-e/classif.htm

Well, there you have it. Cuba's the best country. It's decided.

 

[Synobun]

Mouthwash is demonstrating the different branches of "ideally" and how they have different roots.

I don't think there are many who would classify the Amish as successful, unless we're using successful to imply survival.

It also doesn't serve as a counterpoint to what I said given that many Amish communities make use of the Rumspringa ritual which explicitly entails the would-be Amish individual making an individual choice.

 

[stinkubus]

Uh the Amish aren't a society to emulate. If we all acted like them the human race would've been wiped out be disease years ago.

 

[Mouthwash]

I don't think there are many who would classify the Amish as successful, unless we're using successful to imply survival.

So you haven't listened to a word I've said.

It also doesn't serve as a counterpoint to what I said given that many Amish communities make use of the Rumspringa ritual which explicitly entails the would-be Amish individual making an individual choice.

Or else they go to slightly less conservative towns and use actual tractors on their farmland (and would still be considered quaint by your church-going, racist grandpa).

Uh the Amish aren't a society to emulate. If we all acted like them the human race would've been wiped out be disease years ago.

Really? I can't figure out why a far healthier subset of the population shouldn't be emulated. Could you explain this in a little more depth?

 

[stinkubus]

The Amish, who do not take vaccinations, only enjoy freedom from diseases like measles, mumps, rubella, etc. because the rest of the population has been immunized. If we followed their lead we'd still have things like small pox and polio plaguing us. They also live in squalid, unsanitary conditions.

 

[Synobun]

The Amish, who do not take vaccinations, only enjoy freedom from diseases like measles, mumps, rubella, etc. because the rest of the population has been immunized. If we followed their lead we'd still have things like small pox and polio plaguing us. They also live in squalid, unsanitary conditions.

Moreover, the Amish and Mennonites are as 'successful' as they are (if we're using Mouthwash's metric for success above) because they are allowed to exist by the larger society they operate within. They enjoy certain modern liberties while being permitted to forsake certain aspects of the society that created those liberties. Their comparative stagnation (and perceived happiness with that arrangement) only works because they don't have to develop to improve (i.e. they change by using cellphones, which were developed by the same people they refuse to live amongst).

They're certainly hard workers, and it may even be true that they are happier compared to everybody else, but I'm not sure they can be used as a larger scale social model since their existence and prosperity is directly tied to, well, us.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

mankind didn't die out before vaccinations were invented in the first place.

 

[stinkubus]

mankind didn't die out before vaccinations were invented in the first place.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/hyperbole?s=t

 

[Hygro]

Moreover, the Amish and Mennonites are as 'successful' as they are (if we're using Mouthwash's metric for success above) because they are allowed to exist by the larger society they operate within. They enjoy certain modern liberties while being permitted to forsake certain aspects of the society that created those liberties.

I feel like this logic applies in many unrelated cases as well. A basic model could be grownups creating space for children, or those with both power and bigger perspective creating space for those without.

I don't think there are many who would classify the Amish as successful

I'm only going by what you and Mouthwash said on this page, but Mouthwash offered "happiness" as a classification of successful. As food for thought goes, I was sated. I recognize you go on to address this more directly the quote I cut short above.

 

[Mouthwash]

The Amish, who do not take vaccinations, only enjoy freedom from diseases like measles, mumps, rubella, etc. because the rest of the population has been immunized. If we followed their lead we'd still have things like small pox and polio plaguing us.

I wasn't aware of that, but I wasn't claiming we should literally follow the Amish code, only that we could learn from it.

They also live in squalid, unsanitary conditions.

So they also don't experience the destructive effects that overcleanliness has on our biology. So less asthma. Oh, and half the fricking cancer rate, but the stress-free living is also a factor there.

Moreover, the Amish and Mennonites are as 'successful' as they are (if we're using Mouthwash's metric for success above) because they are allowed to exist by the larger society they operate within. They enjoy certain modern liberties while being permitted to forsake certain aspects of the society that created those liberties.

That's, as far as I know, true for their attitudes towards warfare. What else?

Their comparative stagnation (and perceived happiness with that arrangement) only works because they don't have to develop to improve (i.e. they change by using cellphones, which were developed by the same people they refuse to live amongst).

What? I certainly don't think Amish people use cellphones for any purpose.

They're certainly hard workers, and it may even be true that they are happier compared to everybody else, but I'm not sure they can be used as a larger scale social model since their existence and prosperity is directly tied to, well, us.

Why? They deliberately make themselves self-subsistent, and I'd say they do a pretty good job of it (one reason for their spreading out in recent decades is that a dozen or so households is their upper limit on a single community). They'd be the perfect people to colonize a terraformed Mars.

 

[Synobun]

What? I certainly don't think Amish people use cellphones for any purpose.

They do. Some communities even use cars! It can differ between areas, of course. There are the die-hards who still employ the same standards as centuries ago, but most at this point do the standard practice of picking and choosing the parts they want to keep.

I grew up in Mennonite country, a fairly similar ideology to the Amish. They refused to drive cars but were allowed to ride in them, and refused to use phones on their property but used them while within modern society. They also put their kids in our schools up until grade 8. I don't believe they partook in rumspringa though. As far as I know their coming-of-age ritual was transferring kids between other communities to uh, keep genetic diversity alive and well.

 

[stinkubus]

Yeah the rule of thumb for the Amish, generally, is that owning things like power tools, cars, etc. is bad but God is a-ok with them mooching off others around them.

 

[Mouthwash]

They do. Some communities even use cars! It can differ between areas, of course. There are the die-hards who still employ the same standards as centuries ago, but most at this point do the standard practice of picking and choosing the parts they want to keep.

Yeah the rule of thumb for the Amish, generally, is that owning things like power tools, cars, etc. is bad but God is a-ok with them mooching off others around them.

What difference does this make? The technology offers convenience, but they could certainly live (and thrive) without it.

 

[stinkubus]

I honestly have no idea I only know these things because there are plenty of Amish folks in my neck of the woods. You can hire them to remodel your house. They do pretty good construction work if you can stand how bad they smell.

 

[Mouthwash]

I honestly have no idea I only know these things because there are plenty of Amish folks in my neck of the woods. You can hire them to remodel your house. They do pretty good construction work if you can stand how bad they smell.

Yeah, the Amish vary quite a bit so I wouldn't assume they are representative. I'd also have thought someone called 'Stinkubus' might have a greater appreciation for the natural scent of humanity.