What's your opinion on civ switching?

[Nikolai II]

Well you better hope they figure it out or this game has no future

Hopefully something new, but better can be made. Something not Civ1-6, but not so divisive in implementation as 7. I have faith in Firaxis.

 

[AD1730]

Well you better hope they figure it out or this game has no future

Oh, my position is that they need to drop civ switching and ages and move in a different direction. I also recognize that it is extremely unlikely to happen.

 

[Nikolai II]

Oh, my position is that they need to drop civ switching and ages and move in a different direction. I also recognize that it is extremely unlikely to happen.

Dropping ages is something I cannot foresee them doing, but some changes to civ switching should be moddable already I think (there is mods for it IIRC?) and doable for them.

 

[aieeegrunt]

Dropping ages is something I cannot foresee them doing, but some changes to civ switching should be moddable already I think (there is mods for it IIRC?) and doable for them.

There are, which is why the “well too bad, you just have to take Era Changes/Switching because it’s too difficult to change” is nonsense

 

[Skojardu]

Again, its a matter of perspective and imagination. I would definitely say the concept of Civ Switching is closer to historical reality than one civilisation that lasts forever.

One obvious example is China. China in previous games is a broad monolithic catchall for numerous time periods and dynasties, where as in Civ 7 it is reflected by 3 specific dynastic periods in 'Chinese' history. Clearly Civ 7 is more reflective of what actually happened than say Civ 6.

You need to use your imagination a bit more for some others, but I think is pretty accurate to say there is a clear cultural path from certain civilisations to others. European Civ's are clearly heavily influenced by Greek and Roman traditions, Great Britain has a legacy path from the Romans to the Normans to becoming Britain itself.



You have to consider what you mean when you say Mongols conquer Egypt. For instance, the military leaders of Mongolia might invade the territory of Egypt, but essentially they take on local customs and religion, and you end up with a merged culture which is reflective of both. That is essentially what happens in most invasions. The Normans conquered England, but eventually called themselves English and a merged culture took place between Anglo Saxon and Norman and that is what we think of as English today.

It is this merging and building in layers that Civ 7 is somehow replicating. It isn't accurate to say that Mongolia invades somewhere and now everyone is Mongolian and the previous culture disappears. It doesn't work like that.

The romance of Civ is to play as these disappeared peoples. What if Alexander spared Thebes? What would it be like if the Phoenicians stuck together like the Greeks? What would happen if Egypt kept independent? How about the Inca, Aztecs, or Scythians, for that matter? What if the Byzantines remained in power?

 

[Nikolai II]

There are, which is why the “well too bad, you just have to take Era Changes/Switching because it’s too difficult to change” is nonsense

I wouldn't want Firaxis to just copy a mod though. I want something new, something not easily done by a mod. Something deeper, preferably.

 

[Crashdummy]

Not everything in a game can be optional. The base game itself has to be a game that people play.

You dislike the base game in VII. That doesn't mean that because things in it aren't optional, that they're therefore bad. Things are bad when they break your immersion, or you find them boring.

Do we petition the devs to remove boring win conditions? No, we petition them to make them better.

You were wondering why Cramatic Ages wasnt a big deal with people and why Age Transitions are in Civ VII, i replied to that

The difference is that one were optional

The problem with Age transitions is not that they are bad, is that their CONCEPT goes against the franchise. You cant "make them better"

 

[Crashdummy]

I just don't see how a fully functioning classic mode will be implemented alongside a fully functioning civ switching/ages mode. The number of mechanics that must be changed and supported over the years is orders of magnitude larger than Dramatic Ages.

Its either that or start making Civ 8, there is no alternative

Civ VII will never gain popularity with Age transitions and Civ switching being forced and not optional

 

[Crashdummy]

Dropping ages is something I cannot foresee them doing, but some changes to civ switching should be moddable already I think (there is mods for it IIRC?) and doable for them.

If they dont do it is because they dont want to. If there is a will, there is a way. The game is in bad shape, you wont recover it with small changes. It needs a big rework

 

[Acken]

I don't mind it that much, I have more problem with the age system than civ switching. The game would not be much better imo if you stayed the same civ accross the 3 ages with the ages still being a thing.

 

[McSpank01]

The romance of Civ is to play as these disappeared peoples. What if Alexander spared Thebes? What would it be like if the Phoenicians stuck together like the Greeks? What would happen if Egypt kept independent? How about the Inca, Aztecs, or Scythians, for that matter? What if the Byzantines remained in power?

As I said elsewhere, at no point in any of the games are you really ever recreating those scenarios. You just have a faction with a label on it that says Greece or Egypt, it has little relationship to reality or history and you are not really ever coming close to making some alternative history, you are playing a game with a bunch of factions fighting each other.

 

[Leucarum]

With Civ7 there definitely are separate emotional and mechanical angles to all the problems with its divisive elements.

Emotionally for ages we have things like:
"What happened to my empire doesn't match what happened in the game" aka "My empire died offscreen"
Or "The transition takes me out of the game"

While for Civ Switching we have things like:
"My available transitions don't make sense to me"
Or "I want to roleplay as a specific Civilization this gane and not any other"

And with leaders we have "Why does X lead Y" or "Why does Y not have a leader." I'm omitting the arguments about X not being deserving of a spot as there's almost always a political undertone there... And that one's not new.

Mechanical issues are I think far easier to solve than those... And I really don't recall previous big changes having such am emotional element to them...

I guess there was an aesthetic element to Civ6's cartoony graphics or the appearance of a "Carpet of Doom" when 1UPT went away.... But if graphics are your red line you're probably playing the wrong genre. Am forgetting a backlash?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

As I said elsewhere, at no point in any of the games are you really ever recreating those scenarios. You just have a faction with a label on it that says Greece or Egypt, it has little relationship to reality or history and you are not really ever coming close to making some alternative history, you are playing a game with a bunch of factions fighting each other.

That's a subjective opinion, and depends on the person. I know a lot of people that like to play "what if scenarios" like what if the Maya were never conquered by the Spanish and could launch a rocket and colonize mars after studying outer space for years with their observatories. You can't do that in this game.

 

[McSpank01]

That's a subjective opinion, and depends on the person. I know a lot of people that like to play "what if scenarios" like what if the Maya were never conquered by the Spanish and could launch a rocket and colonize mars after studying outer space for years with their observatories. You can't do that in this game.

I’m sorry you can no longer take the enormous leaps of imagination necessary to play as the Maya with Space rockets and instead have been cruelly forced to take the enormous leap of imagination necessary to play as the Incans who became Mexico with Space rockets. What a hardship.

 

[EpicWestern]

I feel like we need to allow people to play bland featureless continuations of ancient era civs to just so they can experience how silly that is compared to playing a fully developed civ with a unique tech tree, buildings, and/or units.

 

[Skojardu]

I’m sorry you can no longer take the enormous leaps of imagination necessary to play as the Maya with Space rockets and instead have been cruelly forced to take the enormous leap of imagination necessary to play as the Incans who became Mexico with Space rockets. What a hardship.

Review a map, McSpank! You have the entire mini continent of Central America blocking the Incan domains from the Azetc / Mexican. The Mayans had such recognized astronomical feats that they had a special district in Civ 6 highlighting it. So yeah, the romance stands on steady feet; what if the Mayans resisted the Triple Alliance of the Aztecs and they instead were the hegemon of the region? Spaceships ahoy!

 

[ColtSeavers]

I’m sorry you can no longer take the enormous leaps of imagination necessary to play as the Maya with Space rockets and instead have been cruelly forced to take the enormous leap of imagination necessary to play as the Incans who became Mexico with Space rockets. What a hardship.

You mean like having to play against Catherine the Great leading some South American or African Civilization? Civ Switching being closer to historical reality? Yeah, right...

 

[socratic]

I’m sorry you can no longer take the enormous leaps of imagination necessary to play as the Maya with Space rockets and instead have been cruelly forced to take the enormous leap of imagination necessary to play as the Incans who became Mexico with Space rockets. What a hardship.

I mean that’s kind of the point. Civ 7 lost the original roleplaying aspect that many came for. That’s a perfectly valid reason for not liking the new direction

 

[GeneralZift]

 

[aieeegrunt]

I wouldn't want Firaxis to just copy a mod though. I want something new, something not easily done by a mod. Something deeper, preferably.

The point is that some random unpaid modders in their spare time have already taken it this far