When to go to war when playing tradition

[besset]

When do you usually war when playing tradition? If I'm playing as Arabia for example, do I only war when I get my UU, if at all? I mean puppeted cities give some nice yields but I will have to spend a lot of resources on an army. What if I get boxed in early as tradition and I can only settle 2 more cities, and I perhaps have a warmonger neighbour, do I go early war or just defend until medieval, then war with my UU or just keep defending all game even after medieval?

What about if I have peaceful neighbours all game, do I still wanna war in that case?

What's the optimal way of play?

 

[CrazyG]

If you think you will have to fight at some point (you are next to the Zulu or something), its much better to fight earlier.

If another civ is going to win before you do, try to attack them. Time the attack immediately after you unlock a new unit and buy/build a few.

If you think you can win without fighting your neighbors, don't upset them.

 

[besset]

If you think you will have to fight at some point (you are next to the Zulu or something), its much better to fight earlier.

If another civ is going to win before you do, try to attack them. Time the attack immediately after you unlock a new unit and buy/build a few.

If you think you can win without fighting your neighbors, don't upset them.

What about if i have peaceful neighbours, and then I unlock my UU, do I utilize it or is it always better to ignore war as tradition if possible?

 

[tu_79]

What about if i have peaceful neighbours, and then I unlock my UU, do I utilize it or is it always better to ignore war as tradition if possible?

As CrazyG said, if you upset your neighbours, it would be more difficult to trade and make deals. They will attack you anyways if they think you are winning, though.

Ignoring war is not only not necessary, but most often you need to fight. Just don't conquer cities if you want to stay tall and relatively peaceful. Try yourself some 'crippling war': pillage and kill units, but conquer no city. This will slow down that civ. They won't be happy, but they might even forgive you if you don't take their cities.

Well, sometimes.

I had a game where I captured a Moroccan settler in the very early game (he was about to stop my expansion), and he didn't forgive me ever. Rancorous.

 

[ElliotS]

What about if i have peaceful neighbours, and then I unlock my UU, do I utilize it or is it always better to ignore war as tradition if possible?

Play it by ear. If someone is in a weak diplomatic position (hated by most people) vassalizing them is typically a good idea. Vassals are the best thing a tall civ can ask for, providing a lot of benefits without many negatives. Typically they'll eventually forgive you.

 

[besset]

Play it by ear. If someone is in a weak diplomatic position (hated by most people) vassalizing them is typically a good idea. Vassals are the best thing a tall civ can ask for, providing a lot of benefits without many negatives. Typically they'll eventually forgive you.

What is so good about vassals? Also should I vassal the civ with many cities left or should I take his cities til I get his monopolies and then vassal?

 

[tu_79]

What is so good about vassals? Also should I vassal the civ with many cities left or should I take his cities til I get his monopolies and then vassal?

They always vote for you, fight in your wars, and gift some yields and units. It has gold maintenance, though.

 

[Gidoza]

Something I might add is that while I agree with the "don't capture cities" advice - something else you can do is try to take note of captured city-states or cities captured from another civilization and then go ahead and liberate those cities - you'll get allies or points with all the other civs, though of course the one you're at war with won't like you much.

 

[ElliotS]

What is so good about vassals? Also should I vassal the civ with many cities left or should I take his cities til I get his monopolies and then vassal?

You get: Money, Science, Culture, Faith, WC votes, Free units, A military buffer zone and ally in all war. Also you can allow them to colonize all of your extra land you don't want to.

Honestly I tend to let them have as many cities as possible, and gift them most of what I took. It's a careful game where you want your vassals as strong as possible without being able to free themselves.

 

[Bromar1]

If your civ has a late medieval UU, you can synchronize tradition into Fealty so that you can get armories up quickly and pump out strong units. Arabia could work for this as Camel Archers unlock near the same time armories. Use your great engineers to scoop up militaristic wonders like Terra cotta army and great Wall and you can muster a sizeable force faster your rivals

 

[hr_oskar]

If your civ has a late medieval UU, you can synchronize tradition into Fealty so that you can get armories up quickly and pump out strong units. Arabia could work for this as Camel Archers unlock near the same time armories. Use your great engineers to scoop up militaristic wonders like Terra cotta army and great Wall and you can muster a sizeable force faster your rivals

Fealty's opener and first policy are oh-so-tempting when they become available but in the long run I think it's a mistake to not go straight for the tree that supports your intended victory type. If you're Arabia that would be Artistry, for Austria Statecraft, etc. If you took tradition then most of the time fealty isn't the right medieval tree to follow up with.

That said, I'm convinced that military wonders like Terracotta Army and the Great Wall are excellent for tradition, not least because the extra supply limit is so valuable for a tall empire. You can't be entirely peaceful in any game because the AI will eventually attack you. If you want to turtle up with tradition and go builder mode, you must at least build a strong defensive military; the Great Wall is amazing for that.

 

[tu_79]

the Great Wall is amazing for that.

Agree. Until gunpowder, at least.

 

[Txurce]

Agree. Until gunpowder, at least.

I think he meant it boosts your cap more than it slows your enemies.

 

[tu_79]

I think he meant it boosts your cap more than it slows your enemies.

Am I wrong or GW only effect after gunpowder is the extra supply? 3 more units was it?
The best thing for supply, I'd say, is picking to the glory of god, and purchasing some great admirals and great generals and expending them, in addtion to fighting often. But it has to wait till industrial age.

Not saying Great Wall is bad to have, mind you.

 

[Txurce]

Am I wrong or GW only effect after gunpowder is the extra supply? 3 more units was it?
The best thing for supply, I'd say, is picking to the glory of god, and purchasing some great admirals and great generals and expending them, in addtion to fighting often. But it has to wait till industrial age.

Not saying Great Wall is bad to have, mind you.

After Dynamite the upside is the original cap bump. Good point about FTGOG.

 

[chicorbeef]

After Dynamite the upside is the original cap bump. Good point about FTGOG.

Does the Great Wall still only have its effect until the player researches Dynamite? If so, I assume it would be impossible to code the other way around?

 

[Txurce]

Does the Great Wall still only have its effect until the player researches Dynamite? If so, I assume it would be impossible to code the other way around?

I'm not sure what you mean by "the other way around," but the GW's effect expires when dynamite is first researched.

 

[chicorbeef]

I'm not sure what you mean by "the other way around," but the GW's effect expires when dynamite is first researched.

I meant if it would be possible that when the AI researches Dynamite, they ignore your GW effect. I assume that's impossible, though.

 

[Txurce]

I meant if it would be possible that when the AI researches Dynamite, they ignore your GW effect. I assume that's impossible, though.

I see - you mean that only the player who researched it could ignore it. That would be a very complicated bit of coding.

 

[tu_79]

I see - you mean that only the player who researched it could ignore it. That would be a very complicated bit of coding.

Dunno, let a developer say how difficult it may be. And if this is a change worth of it.